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Posted

Good post lancerr, I share most of the points you made.

 

A company such as HB has to find the perfect balance between the « good » hype that’ll boost the pre-purchases and the « bad » hype that might frustrate the many impatient customers and make them act like children before Xmas. Not an easy thing to do.

Posted (edited)

If I ever have to make a choice, I prefer something coming from nowhere, immediately available, and awaited by the community, I'm sure that some kind of plane can't go wrong with that.

 

Some planes type come again and again in a lot of topic but no project or development in sight, so if you make it happening instently I think that can't go wrong, BTW I don't think that the F14 go wrong in anything because this plane is the game changer about combat in multicrew and in a lot of things that we never get before.

 

In all cases you have always three side of peoples happy/fanboys/never happy :D

Edited by Pougatchev

/

Posted
Thanks for the input! It is appreciated.

 

I strongly believe we have some of the best marketing in the industry. The strong discussions taking place here (with much emotion involved, certainly) are a vast minority per our metrics. There will always be a core group of people who are overexposed to every piece of media we produce. Meanwhile, we're reaching thousands more through content producer outreach.

 

We try to work with content producers to space content and keep things fresh, and we may have let it go to too many at once this time around, but this will always be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of situation. It was in 2014 when we launched the MiG-21, and it is today. The main change we'll make moving forward is not doing pre-orders based on a date range (this simply does not work with consumers). Expectation management simply falls apart at the seams.

 

I think the pre-order has been conducted well. You have made your progress and goals pretty transparent throughout and it has given us the opportunity to support you where it counts.

 

The only thing I would prefer is a declared primary mode of communication. Rather than having people posting links to hoggit, youtube comments, or other threads with a snippit of (mis)information. That way we could refer to one official source that has the updates first.

Posted

I have no idea what kind of products OP has been involved in launching, but based on his suggestions I do know they weren’t any kind of entertainment media.

While there have been some pretty obvious missteps, HB have done a lot of things right that they’re not getting enough credit for.

i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...

Posted
Good for you that you don't care, yet the community is very divided on this release process. I think he makes valid points.

 

 

 

 

really? the community is divided? I honestly only hear the same thing from about 20-30 members, the rest are quietly waiting and eating popcorn watching you guys destroy each other. I am one of them eating the popcorn. I think the whole thing is a joke and knowing how software is released, this is much better than almost anything I have seen in a while.

 

 

 

So about this divided community, Does this mean that one half won't buy the product when it comes out, or will buy the product but just still grumble? I am trying to figure out what you mean by it.

 

 

 

I await all incoming missiles and am prepared to start notching! :pilotfly:

Posted

My parents taught me to be patient and that I can't have it all at once.

A skill dropped from parenting all together it seems.

 

No matter in what business I look, people always complain these days.

 

 

 

I can't complain about the way HB handled their release. I'm not an expert in this flightsim market to understand what the best way to release a module is. All I know you can't compare markets this way. If you're talking about products selling millions of copies it tells me you have a wide platform / market to release that product on. Something flightsim in general is lacking.

 

I personally enjoy every little information released prior the launch of this module as Ive enjoyed all pre release media for flightsim add ons since my start in the FS95 days.

It gets me exciting and eager to fly it. Because of this I am studying the 400+ pages manual and I don't even like reading :smartass:. I want to be ready when the module releases and I like to fly those thousands of hours in it. :pilotfly:

 

 

 

 

Only complaint I am having is that I can't enjoy the F18, F14 and (soon TM) F16 at the same time and have to choose which one to fly.

Beste regards,

Stefan, HereThen

 

| I7 8700K 4.7 Ghz | EVGA RTX 3080Ti | 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 | Asus MAXIMUS X HERO | ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q | TrackIR5 | Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog | Thrustmaster TPR | Steelseries Apex PRO | Steelseries Aerox 3 | Steelseries Arctis WL Pro | MonsterTech table clamps |

Posted

Quick background. I work in tech and have launched 10+ global products over the last 12 years (~40 to 50M users for each).

 

 

Need details. What's "tech"? communication satellites ? vibro-sextoys ? that's a lot of toys…

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

Posted (edited)

Is this where we apply for Heatblur Jobs?

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Hat, Bad Idea

1 Paul Brown Stadium, Cincinnati, OH 45202

Phone - Greenfield 4745

example@example.com

 

 

Dedicated shitposter and aircraft crasher, with ~ years service in both industries. Desire a position doing whatever. Have experience in Spiderman memes and propane and propane accessories. Successfully raised 3 kids and 2 1/2 dogs.

 

 

 

Highlights;

That one time

The other time

Last week

 

 

Experience;

Yes.

Also yes, again.

 

 

Certifications;

COMPTIA A+ (this is actually true, for another year or so)

Gold star given to me by my wife when I remembered to take out the trash without her asking me three or more times

My mom says I'm a good kid

 

 

edit - Apparently I am also verbally dyslexic now, because I just told the 1/2 dog "If you don't stop acting crazy tonight, I'm going to ship you to the north pole to live with Satan." So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

Edited by Bad Idea Hat
Posted
Is this where we apply for Heatblur Jobs?

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Hat, Bad Idea

1 Paul Brown Stadium, Cincinnati, OH 45202

 

...

 

 

Is that you, Mike? :megalol:

Posted
Would have been the same issue with the Cristen Eagle ? I don't see it's an issue either with the MiG-19… Some orange dressed bald dude from Asia always says that desire equals suffering.

 

remind me.. when did you pay for your Mig-19 4 months ago for it's early access ? ;)

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Posted

I can't agree that the problem was access to testers and youtubers. The problem is simply a massive sense of entitlement felt by the community that think because they paid 70USD a couple months ago, they now have agency in the development and release of the product. This isn't kickstarter nor gofundme.

 

And they would do well to understand the difference.

Posted
There was some false information yesterday on some Discord servers about a faked thread post of Wags saying the F-14 was going to be delayed to June.

 

Well, that's Discord after all 5537.png

 

My parents taught me to be patient and that I can't have it all at once.

A skill dropped from parenting all together it seems.

 

I've been taught that as well and what did it bring to me? Still waiting for someone to accept my skills (or the lack thereof, not everyone's born a pro) and pay me a salary for the work I could do - and I'm older than Top Gun. But I'm still patient... maybe I should complain more? rdlaugh.png

 

For anyone wondering: Health issues rainbowdashwink.png

 

Is this where we apply for Heatblur Jobs?

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Hat, Bad Idea

 

[...]

 

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

Posted

I think Cobra's post said it all.

 

I do think though that pre-release purchases without a fixed release date (started by Eagle Dynamics with the Hornet, and continued with the Tomcat by Heatblur) is not the right way to go.

 

While it may be a welcome influx of cash, it tends to result in customer dissatisfaction and rampant speculation when tentative release estimates, estimates NOT dates, are inevitably missed.

 

I myself have not purchased the Tomcat (YET) and will not do so until Heatblur and Eagle Dynamics announces a definite release date, despite it being my dream SIM module. However I understand that many here do not share this position or wish to support the developer in any way they can etc.

 

I hope that both HB and ED take a lesson from this, and from Cobra's post it seems that the point has been taken going forward.

 

With all of that said I think Heatblur have done everything else absolutely right, I would actually appreciate even more content on twitch or youtube to tide us over in these last few weeks before release, and Im pretty sure the majority of DCS users feel the same way.

Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.

Posted
I think Cobra's post said it all.

 

I do think though that pre-release purchases without a fixed release date (started by Eagle Dynamics with the Hornet, and continued with the Tomcat by Heatblur) is not the right way to go.

 

While it may be a welcome influx of cash, it tends to result in customer dissatisfaction and rampant speculation when tentative release estimates, estimates NOT dates, are inevitably missed.

 

I myself have not purchased the Tomcat (YET) and will not do so until Heatblur and Eagle Dynamics announces a definite release date, despite it being my dream SIM module. However I understand that many here do not share this position or wish to support the developer in any way they can etc.

 

I hope that both HB and ED take a lesson from this, and from Cobra's post it seems that the point has been taken going forward.

 

With all of that said I think Heatblur have done everything else absolutely right, I would actually appreciate even more content on twitch or youtube to tide us over in these last few weeks before release, and Im pretty sure the majority of DCS users feel the same way.

 

 

The funny thing is, its not their fault that pre-orders without a certain release date but rather a release range do not work; its the greed of this community that does.

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

Posted
The funny thing is, its not their fault that pre-orders without a certain release date but rather a release range do not work; its the greed of this community that does.
You can fix one, you can't fix another.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

Posted (edited)
remind me.. when did you pay for your Mig-19 4 months ago for it's early access ? ;)

The point was that nobody complained that random youteuboueurrrr had access to that module before anyone else, even the imploring desperate individuals asking for a pre-order kept silent.

Edited by Bogey Jammer

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

Posted
You can fix one, you can't fix another.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

No, I refuse to believe we can't get rid of greed, and thus the tragic condition of human nature, world hunger...and poverty....and greenhouse gasses, cows, air travel, etc. First Citizen AOC can back me up on this.

Posted
No, I refuse to believe we can't get rid of greed, and thus the tragic condition of human nature, world hunger...and poverty....and greenhouse gasses, cows, air travel, etc. First Citizen AOC can back me up on this.
The hardest one there is stopping cows from farting. Not sure how you can do that. Man on moon sure. No farting cows - not so easy.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

Posted (edited)
The point was that nobody complained that random youteuboueurrrr had access to that module before anyone else, even the imploring desperate individuals asking for a pre-order kept silent.

 

why would they ? they didn't pay before hand and they weren't let to believe ('targeting December') that it wouldn't come some time before the latest week of a 4 months timeframe..

Edited by FZG_Immel

[sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC]

Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5

Posted
why would they ? they didn't pay before hand and they weren't let to believe ('targeting December') that it wouldn't come some time before the latest week of a 4 months timeframe..

 

Why would you put all of your 100% expectations into a target timeframe? They never promised that would be the actual month. There was no "100% guarantee." But many times we have been told that the waiting time keeps growing shorter and shorter every single day.

 

The mistake was people getting themselves hyped up over things not officially announced by HB themselves. It is irrational to blame the 3rd party for something that they never officially given a release date for in the first place beside "winter." People were told to manage their expectations and wait accordingly until the latest of March 21, but people had believed otherwise, including dates like these:

 

  • end of January,
  • February 14th,
  • February 27th,
  • June 15th

 

the list continues...

Posted

If you are able to engage the customer base and collect information on needs and wishes - or perhaps even some good ideas - then it makes sense to release information before product launch. In other words, the customers take part in creating the product (or at least, the marketing).

 

Otherwise I would prefer the resources being spent on developing the products. Of course some marketing is necessary to get the word out, but the information I need is more related to what exactly we are getting about when, in order to make my plans and expectations for the future. All the myriad teasers and eye candy and fan service... not always that valuable in my mind, I'd rather concentrate on what we have now and how to make it better.

 

That said, I've thought HB is one of the most professional actors around here. I do appreciate the way they've informed us of delays and the philosophy behind their release thinking, can't really see that severe faults in what communications I've seen to that effect.

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

Posted
Why would you put all of your 100% expectations into a target timeframe? They never promised that would be the actual month. There was no "100% guarantee." But many times we have been told that the waiting time keeps growing shorter and shorter every single day.

 

The mistake was people getting themselves hyped up over things not officially announced by HB themselves. It is irrational to blame the 3rd party for something that they never officially given a release date for in the first place beside "winter." People were told to manage their expectations and wait accordingly until the latest of March 21, but people had believed otherwise, including dates like these:

 

  • end of January,
  • February 14th,
  • February 27th,
  • June 15th

 

the list continues...

 

The timeframe and the targeting December was not something that came from 3rd party though

[sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC]

Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5

Posted

I think we should all thank OP for his post, why? Because without out I wouldn't have been able to see how Cobra handled it in a public forum.

 

Cobra, someday, when you retire, you need to teach the world how you handle criticism and formulate your responses. Either you have holes in your walls from things you have thrown, or you have the meditation capacity of Luke Skywalker in the later movies.

 

More serious: They don't need a million dollar strategy because that's not what this community is. If you are new to flight sims, then I understand your point of view. If you are a veteran of the flight sim world then you still don't get it -- large companies and their strategies suck as this because of the way they look at ROI on the 'product'. Don't treat HB as a startup tech company trying to go global. They've evolved over time, and they are *really* good at what they do.

 

I still can't believe your launch trailer was ~2min long - it felt like it was a movie in itself.

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