AIM54 Seeker +145°???

[Falcon_S]

This happens too many times and time is to talk about this.

 

How is it possible that missile seeker track target behind, +145°.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luckily, no more energy.

 

Please fix or ban this.

 

For me, is enough science here.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Falcon_S

[MurderOne]

Perhaps I'm missing something...but in none of those screens is any missile still tracking the Su-33. I fail to see an AIM-54 anywhere in your screens.

[Falcon_S]

Tacview see it as MATRA

[aaron886]

Why do you say it's the seeker? The Phoenix was SARH/ARH.

[QuiGon]

Why do you say it's the seeker? The Phoenix was SARH/ARH.

It should switch to ARH for terminal guidance though.

[FoxAlfa]

I love the Tomcat and the Heatblur did an amazing job and it is still early access, but yeah Phoenix will probably need some tweaks since performance is a bit enthusiastic in some regimes...

 

[Wexler]

manual: if the target is not detected actively by the seeker it will still fall back to SARH until the seeker can acquire on its own.

[Jonne]

And you do know what SARH is, right? Hint: It is not a command control mode. So it still should not be able to track outside its seeker detection circle.

[Wexler]

And you do know what SARH is, right? Hint: It is not a command control mode. So it still should not be able to track outside its seeker detection circle.

 

Good point.

[umkhunto]

On my tacview, the Phoenix is called the AIM-54, not the 530D... Anywho...

 

As many have said, when the missile loses lock in ARH, it switches to SARH. If you're up against a good RIO, that's really spiffy with the AWG-9, you're in a lot of trouble when a Phoenix is on the way.

[QuiGon]

On my tacview, the Phoenix is called the AIM-54, not the 530D... Anywho...

That depends on the variant of the Phoenix. The A is shown as 530D in Tacview, while the C is shown as a Phoenix.

[umkhunto]

That depends on the variant of the Phoenix. The A is shown as 530D in Tacview, while the C is shown as a Phoenix.

The Mk-47, I guess.

 

MK-60 and C are correctly named. Then again, it also depends on the version of tacview.

[slundal]

The AIM54 will get preiodical updates from the AWG9 throughout is flight until it can make an lock with its own scanner. It is not strange that it would drastically change its course to respond to a sudden maneuver from a target.

 

And even if it looses AHR track it will fall back on updates from the AWG9. As long as you still have the enemy as a radar contact the AIM54 can be redirected.

 

Also I believe that even if you loose radar contact briefly and then quickly require it AWG9 will again send updates to the AIM54 to correct its course.

[1Shot1KiLL]

The AIM54 will get preiodical updates from the AWG9 throughout is flight until it can make an lock with its own scanner. It is not strange that it would drastically change its course to respond to a sudden maneuver from a target.

 

And even if it looses AHR track it will fall back on updates from the AWG9. As long as you still have the enemy as a radar contact the AIM54 can be redirected.

 

Also I believe that even if you loose radar contact briefly and then quickly require it AWG9 will again send updates to the AIM54 to correct its course.

 

This.

[1Shot1KiLL]

l think l can start hearing NERF crys. hope not.!!! this is a sim. WAR is not ment to be balanced.

[FZG_Immel]

LoL, the guys flying with an all seing magical Datalink crying about an exaggerated tech ? priceless....

[FoxAlfa]

LoL, the guys flying with an all seing magical Datalink crying about an exaggerated tech ? priceless....

 

 

l think l can start hearing NERF crys. hope not.!!! this is a sim. WAR is not ment to be balanced.

 

Settle down, if you can't say anything constructive it is always more polite to be quiet then troll by trying to start argument which tech is better. That doesn't resolve anything.

 

The AIM54 will get preiodical updates from the AWG9 throughout is flight until it can make an lock with its own scanner. It is not strange that it would drastically change its course to respond to a sudden maneuver from a target.

 

And even if it looses AHR track it will fall back on updates from the AWG9. As long as you still have the enemy as a radar contact the AIM54 can be redirected.

 

Also I believe that even if you loose radar contact briefly and then quickly require it AWG9 will again send updates to the AIM54 to correct its course.

 

Again, AIM54 is SARH missile, not command guidance, AIM54 can require the target with AWG9 help but here the problem is that is this was the case that AWG9 was sending correction, the missile would guide ALL the time toward the target and not suddenly wake up and decide to make a sudden turn. Again you said it yourself "quickly require it" , quickly is the key, if time passes, the math for requiring get a whole more complex and I am not talking about steering cues, I am talking about wave analysis... what is happening here in all is equal to mid air target change, which is you must admit a bit optimistic for the 60's tech...

Edited March 19, 2019 by FoxAlfa

[FoxAlfa]

Also in this case par example the missile tracked at the range of 1,45nm(2.7km) and started a Loony Toons chase with me, even dought the minimal engagement range is around 2nm(3,7km).

 

But again it is early access and we all should expect that those things will get tweaked.

 

 

Link to TacView:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b1JusXGWdGyHCYt1EQdPyyoBY7AMtKL8/view?usp=sharing

[OnlyforDCS]

The real AIM54 can indeed be guided to a target by the AWG9 after losing it's own active lock. It doesn't have to "see" the target as long as the AWG9 is still illuminating it and sending guidance updates. There is nothing preventing 60's technology to do this job, nor does it require anything more other than a properly calibrated INS and a very primitive computer. Once it goes active it relies on its own radar, however if it loses lock it will fall back on AWG9 guidance if available.

 

I don't know whether this is what is happening in this case, because Heatblur have very limited access to missile guidance logic. Once the missile leaves the rail it should behave basically like an Amraam, game logic wise, however HB have confirmed that this was something that they wanted to implement.

 

Relevant discussion in this thread:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233268

Edited March 19, 2019 by OnlyforDCS

[Coxy_99]

Yea clearly crying to be honest trying to be constructive into whats going on and why and some interesting answers.

[Rabbisaur]

@FoxAlfa

 

I think what says here is correct.

 

The AIM54 will get preiodical updates from the AWG9 throughout is flight until it can make an lock with its own scanner. It is not strange that it would drastically change its course to respond to a sudden maneuver from a target.

 

And even if it looses AHR track it will fall back on updates from the AWG9. As long as you still have the enemy as a radar contact the AIM54 can be redirected.

 

Also I believe that even if you loose radar contact briefly and then quickly require it AWG9 will again send updates to the AIM54 to correct its course.

 

From here https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=1066, I read the following piece of information:

 

Control & Guidance. Both missiles use the Hughes

AWG-9 Doppler radar fire control system, with an

infrared subsystem. The central processing computer is

built by Control Data Corporation. The missile

incorporates command/inertial guidance through the

mid-course and active terminal guidance; the onboard

guidance system is designated DSQ-26, the detection

device is designated the DSU-28, and the safety fuze

the FSU-10/A. Northrop Corporation Electronics

Division supplies the inertial reference component. The

AIM-54C features an all-new Digital Electronics Unit

with all-digital processing and an ability to identify

targets by individual characteristics through pre-stored

computer simulations. The aerodynamic control

surfaces are electro-hydraulically actuated with

components supplied by Hydraulic Research and Moog.

Borg Warner has developed a pneumatic actuation

system for the AIM-54.

 

It appears that AIM-54 has a inertial guidance updated by command(datalink) from launching platform(F14) and/or E-2C. I'm looking for more definite answer for you. I also remember I read somewhere that AIM54 has FM antenna on the missile that receive datalink updates of target information. But I forgot where the source is at this moment. I will try to find it for you. So it is more than SARH.

 

At the mean time, you can try ask your buddy to fly the F14 in a one on one test situation with your su27. TWS launch the AIM54 and immediately turn off the sensors on the F14. And you, flying the su27, do your dancing to evade the missile and look at its behavior. when the missile past your flight path, ask your buddy to turn on the radar and given you told him your location so hopefully the radar on the f14 immediately acquires your location, and look at the missile's behavior at that moment again to see whether it can turn back and chase you. That would be more constructive information from you than your first post.

 

Good luck and have fun!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Rabbisaur

[Falcon_S]

This thread can be CLOSED.

 

Phoenix is FICTIONAL missile for now.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3849529#post3849529

[FZG_Immel]

You mean, like your datalink and irst ?

[FoxAlfa]

@FoxAlfa

 

I think what says here is correct.

 

 

 

From here https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=1066, I read the following piece of information:

 

Control & Guidance. Both missiles use the Hughes

AWG-9 Doppler radar fire control system, with an

infrared subsystem. The central processing computer is

built by Control Data Corporation. The missile

incorporates command/inertial guidance through the

mid-course and active terminal guidance; the onboard

guidance system is designated DSQ-26, the detection

device is designated the DSU-28, and the safety fuze

the FSU-10/A. Northrop Corporation Electronics

Division supplies the inertial reference component. The

AIM-54C features an all-new Digital Electronics Unit

with all-digital processing and an ability to identify

targets by individual characteristics through pre-stored

computer simulations. The aerodynamic control

surfaces are electro-hydraulically actuated with

components supplied by Hydraulic Research and Moog.

Borg Warner has developed a pneumatic actuation

system for the AIM-54.

 

It appears that AIM-54 has a inertial guidance updated by command(datalink) from launching platform(F14) and/or E-2C. I'm looking for more definite answer for you. I also remember I read somewhere that AIM54 has FM antenna on the missile that receive datalink updates of target information. But I forgot where the source is at this moment. I will try to find it for you. So it is more than SARH.

 

Good luck and have fun!

 

Please read my post more clearly, no body is saying the AIM54A can't reacquire the target.

 

Secondly we are talking here about AIM54A the bomber killer, not the AIM54C... they are quite different missiles regarding processing power.

 

Again my point is that all clearly missed it is early access and we all should expect that those things will get tweaked.

 

Also the current implementation is not RL missile but the simulation within the limitation of DCS

 

Good luck and have fun!