F14 ground movement sticky

[draconus]

7 hours ago, rwbishUP said:

If you release the brake and just goose the throttle, once it starts rolling you can taxi endless laps around the carrier, while engines in idle, without ever coming to a stop do to friction.

If you mean constant turn on full rudder I'd like to have it checked by both coders and SMEs.

[JupiterJoe]

This morning I was taxiing aft on the carrier (new deck crew active), with a strong wind blowing straight down the deck.  Despite being at idle the tail wind would accelerate me towards the edge.  That's realistic from what I hear. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[rwbishUP]

@JupiterJoe, yeah I tested movement with wind. But, even when I drop in a carrier and set all wind to 0kts in the ME, and set the carrier to stand still. I can add enough power to barely start the F14 moving and go to idle. And I can still taxi continuously until I stop via brakes. Sorry about all the ambient noise, I left my DCRealistic running.

Here's a short track file I just made. I keep looking at the throttle to show it's in idle after the initial "goose".

 

rolling f14.trk

[MAXsenna]

11 hours ago, rwbishUP said:

Sorry about all the ambient noise, I left my DCRealistic running.

Tracks ain't a video. So whatever DCRealistic is doing won't be recorded.  

If one has DCRealistic installed and enabled on the other hand...  

Edited December 10, 2024 by MAXsenna
spelling and grammar, missing text

[JupiterJoe]

Please don't think I'm saying you're wrong @rwbishUP  I'm not sure how it's supposed to be.  A jet engine is still imparting a small amount of thrust, even at idle isn't it?

Edited December 10, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[RustBelt]

On 12/10/2024 at 5:07 AM, JupiterJoe said:

Please don't think I'm saying you're wrong @rwbishUP  I'm not sure how it's supposed to be.  A jet engine is still imparting a small amount of thrust, even at idle isn't it?

More than a small amount. Even with the nozzle all the way open. 

[Nealius]

Isn't this mostly an issue with the DCS code? I recall IronMike or one of the other HB devs mentioning that the friction values aren't granular enough to really perfect the ground roll.

[RustBelt]

Yes especially with regard to the carrier deck, which has some voodoo going in to be “moving ground”. 
 

it’s a flight simulator not a Taxi simulator. So the compromise will always be on the taxi side.

[Rhrich]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:20 PM, RustBelt said:

More than a small amount. Even with the nozzle all the way open. 

Correct.

It’s a long time since knowing this was part of my job, but a typical jet engine will produce 1,5-5 percent of max thrust when in idle. Keep in mind this is of stationary ground trust, which is lower than max in air. 

Small jets with powerful early generation engines was susceptible to this. A Lighting pilot once told me he reached 60 in idle - though he wasn’t sober at the time. 
 

In DCS my tomcat B needs brakes when taxiing to keep the speed down, even in idle. I’ve got no idea if this is correct or not, but generally I don’t really see an issue. The game is for flying, not WRC.  

[RustBelt]

Before I ever flew I worked ground service and we had warning charts about how even at idle you could have your truck flipped if you were close enough to even a high bypass turbofan. Old turbojets were even more dangerous. An idling jet engine is moving a hell of a lot of air mass. 

[draconus]

22 hours ago, Rhrich said:

In DCS my tomcat B needs brakes when taxiing to keep the speed down, even in idle. I’ve got no idea if this is correct or not, but generally I don’t really see an issue.

This is correct by both manual and pilot statements.

[Rhrich]

16 minutes ago, draconus said:

This is correct by both manual and pilot statements.

Thank you.

[rwbishUP]

Thanks for the input. I've never even had the pleasure of seeing a fighter airframe in person, let alone know about how they taxi. I was mostly just wondering if this was prototypical or if maybe the friction was a little out of whack in, DCS.

[Ghost7]

Old post but I rarely post and I have to jump in on this one. I flew military and civilian for 40 years. All planes that I flew, turbo prop and jet, had residual thrust at idle. You need power to get moving and then back to idle. I very rarely needed power to taxi, usually you have to tap the brakes because the plane will continue to accelerate. Different turbo props have to ber managed differently depending on the type (T-6, King Air or C-130 that I flew). New pilots tend to ride the brakes... not good. This has been one of my great frustrations with many flight sims, they usually ride like a car. Note that it might be a flightsim, but taxiing and ATC (hint) are a major part of the pilot's job. I have seen planes that can be difficult to taxi and student pilots really struggle at the beginning.