TWS and phoenix: please help

[flavnet]

Hello everyone!! I read the manual and many comments on the forum, I saw all the video tutorials on youtube, but I still can't use the TWS mode from the pilot's station (maybe it's just the RIO's prerogative?!?!). Then, the TWS mode is the default for the BVR. So, even from what I've seen and read, sitting in the pilot's seat, it should be enough: MODE A / A, VDI TV, HSD TID, Master Arm ON, MSL PREP ON, Mode / STP Norm, Phoenix selected ... and shoot. Well, for example, in front of my Tomcat armed with four phoenixes, there are three SU-30s at 90 nm and around 16,000 feet. The RIO warns me. I start preparing the launch. I move to 16,000 feet and accelerate to 1.2 mach. The SU-30s now are at 50 nm. I press the trigger (once) and the first phoenix starts. I press the trigger again and ... nothing. I press again and again ... nothing !!!! I stay with my three phoenixes until the SU-30s are at 18 nm, the SU-30 first target has been hit and my "very good" RIO informs me that he can't lock anything!!! So it's up to me using the PAL and the sparrow to take out the second SU-30. The third I can bring it down with a sidewinder. In practice, my RIO lock the targets in STT and not in TWS!!!! But, while in flight, if I exchange the pilot position with the RIO, the selected radar mode is TWS!!!!! Please help! Thank you in advance.

[SilentGun]

So from what i have tested, Jester will always have the radar in TWS mode and you will know this if you can see the radar returns on the TID. if the targets are too close together it will display as one contact on the TID and if you are trying to engage multiple targets, Jester will not push the next missile button in the RIO cockpit if he does not see more than 1 target. If you are playing in single player you can simply just hop in the back seat and push the button yourself and wait 16 seconds or so to launch the next missile, but ive found its a hit or miss whether or not the AIM-54 will track the second target.

you will know if you can launch another missile if you see the HOT TRIG light illuminate on the ACM panel.

[flavnet]

Ok. Thanks for the reply. Then I will try to engage targets farther than 50 nm. Let's see if the phoenix launches will be consecutive as it happens for AMRAAM.

[near_blind]

Also keep in mind the AIM-54 has a three second release delay where the AWG-9 is feeding data to the missile and the mechanical linkages are being severed between when you pull the trigger and the missile falls clear of the aircraft.

 

By default, you can't launch another missile before the first completes it's launch process.

[MRaza]

How do you know when the missile goes pitbull?

[flavnet]

So, I understood my mistake. It all depends on how tight is the target aircraft formation. In fact, at a distance of 60 nm, the radar does not distinguish the number of airplanes in formation. So for the RIO in front of the F14 there could be only one plane and this single track is locked in TWS mode. Only at a distance between 30 and 40 nm the radar detect multiple tracks. Meanwhile, to launch a second missile in TWS, I had to wait and, given the distance and evasive maneuvers of the targets, it is possible that the RIO will not be able to perform a "lock on". Then, it's better to order the RIO to lock (in STT) the target in front of the F-14. Unfortunately, I'm used to the TWS / AMRAAM of the F-15 (which is also a bit science fiction).

[QuiGon]

Just to clearify something: The RIO actually does pretty much nothing here. When the radar is in TWS mode it will do everything automatically. It will assign launch priorities to the targets, it will cycle to the next target after a missile has been fired and it will adjust radar elevation as required to keep track of the different targets (although that isn't implemented yet). The RIO just sits there and watches how the AWG-9 does its thing (and presses the launch button if the pilot is not).

 

 

How do you know when the missile goes pitbull?

The time to impact timer on the target icon on the TID will start flashing when the Phoenix goes pitbull when launched in TWS mode. It's not implemented yet though.

Edited April 2, 2019 by QuiGon

[Dudikoff]

Just to clearify something: The RIO actually does pretty much nothing here. When the radar is in TWS mode it will do everything automatically. It will assign launch priorities to the targets, it will cycle to the next target after a missile has been fired and it will adjust radar elevation as required to keep track of the different targets (although that isn't implemented yet). The RIO just sits there and watches how the AWG-9 does its thing (and presses the launch button if the pilot is not).

 

From my Fleet Defender days, that's the TWS-A mode, but there's also a TWS-M mode where the RIO assigns target sequence manually I think.

 

There's probably more to it, I didn't have time to play with all the RIO stuff yet as I have to program the controls profile for the RIO first.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Dudikoff

[jojo]

Yep, the RIO can select a target and set it as "next launch" by pressing a button, modifying the priority order.

[QuiGon]

From my Fleet Defender days, that's the TWS-A mode, but there's also a TWS-M mode where the RIO assigns target sequence manually I think.

 

There's probably more to it, I didn't have time to play with all the RIO stuff yet as I have to program the controls profile for the RIO first.

No, in TWS-M the RIO just gets manual control over elevation, that's it. The AWG-9 will still assign the target sequence on its own.

 

Yep, the RIO can select a target and set it as "next launch" by pressing a button, modifying the priority order.

Correct, he can hit the NEXT LAUNCH button to change the number one priority target if he doesn't agree with the AWG-9s target priority.

[Top Jockey]

So from what i have tested, Jester will always have the radar in TWS mode and you will know this if you can see the radar returns on the TID. if the targets are too close together it will display as one contact on the TID and if you are trying to engage multiple targets, Jester will not push the next missile button in the RIO cockpit if he does not see more than 1 target. If you are playing in single player you can simply just hop in the back seat and push the button yourself and wait 16 seconds or so to launch the next missile, but ive found its a hit or miss whether or not the AIM-54 will track the second target.

you will know if you can launch another missile if you see the HOT TRIG light illuminate on the ACM panel.

 

I've also encountered those "system complexities" typical of the AWG-9 / Phoenix system.

 

But if it's imperative to fire a second missile at the same target, why not command Jester to go STT at it ?

 

That way, HOT TRIG condtion gets ready very quickly.

[westr]

If you switch to STT and go for a single target after firing missiles in TWS before the TWS shots have gone Pitbull, does the aircraft’s radar still give guidance information to those missiles, or do they loose track? 

[trenchfeet]

Loose track, except maybe the C variant, will go to last know calculated spot/path and go active around there. But if the bandit alters course it will miss.

[captain_dalan]

On 4/25/2024 at 10:54 PM, westr said:

If you switch to STT and go for a single target after firing missiles in TWS before the TWS shots have gone Pitbull, does the aircraft’s radar still give guidance information to those missiles, or do they loose track? 

Confirmed loss of track for both A and C variants. STT-ing after firing in TWS, but before missile going active seems to be a one way ticket to the stratosphere! 
 

Tacview-20240501-014315-DCS-1 on1 loft test mk47 A.zip.acmi Tacview-20240501-014729-DCS-1 on1 loft test mk47.zip.acmi