Trim?

[Kev2go]

maybe im just blind but i cant find the trim bindings for the l16

Edited May 9, 2019 by Kev2go

[Mesha44]

I don't think it has any trim controls.

[Kev2go]

I don't think it has any trim controls.

 

So i started to suspect.....

 

Make it pain having to constantly compensate the stick and never taking hands off because itl just nose dive straight down.

 

IF so thats a real dealbreaker

Edited May 9, 2019 by Kev2go

[msalama]

AFAIR the real plane had no trim controls whatsoever.

[arglmauf]

The design doc for the I-16:

 

• Engine
  
• Wings
  
• Some guns
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
   
  
• At least four more levers than capitalist planes
  
• Compass heating
  

 

Gotta get your priorities right, tovarish. The I-16 is a very hands on little repurposed lawnmower, you gotta love it for that:)

[philstyle]

AFAIR the real plane had no trim controls whatsoever.

 

 

Yup, I16 did not have trims.

This is proper pre-war flying. Seat-of-pants and hands-on 100%.

[grafspee]

The design doc for the I-16:

 

• Engine
  
• Wings
  
• Some guns
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
   
  
• At least four more levers than capitalist planes
  
• Compass heating
  

 

Gotta get your priorities right, tovarish. The I-16 is a very hands on little repurposed lawnmower, you gotta love it for that:)

back in time when this plane was developed elevator trim was exotic stuff nobody realy took this as must have

[RudderButt]

 

Make it pain having to constantly compensate the stick and never taking hands off because itl just nose dive straight down.

 

 

 

I spent almost 5 hours in this bird last night and found that if you're wanting to fly straight and level you need only dial in the correct amount of flaps for a given power setting to keep the VSI needle perfectly on 0. Not having rudder or aileron trim does, however, mean that you have to keep your hand on the stick at all times to prevent uncommanded roll. If you're going to deploy flaps to compensate for lack of elevator trim don't forget to add power during your turns though!

[Siegfried]

Use curves, problem solved.

[Random]

I like the sound of this! My floor mounted stick will really come into its own! Knees to hold stick still while hands off. Just like a real plane!

[BSS_Sniper]

So i started to suspect.....

 

Make it pain having to constantly compensate the stick and never taking hands off because itl just nose dive straight down.

 

IF so thats a real dealbreaker

 

 

Yes, realism is a real deal breaker...

[BSS_Sniper]

I spent almost 5 hours in this bird last night and found that if you're wanting to fly straight and level you need only dial in the correct amount of flaps for a given power setting to keep the VSI needle perfectly on 0. Not having rudder or aileron trim does, however, mean that you have to keep your hand on the stick at all times to prevent uncommanded roll. If you're going to deploy flaps to compensate for lack of elevator trim don't forget to add power during your turns though!

 

 

You don't fly around with flaps deployed if you want to do it right

[Kev2go]

Yes, realism is a real deal breaker...

 

 

 

yes if i had known this prior to buying, i would have held off given its price point.

 

 

I have certain checkboxes of what i expect. I simply dont fly what i dont like. lack of such a feature doesn't suit me and is a dealbreaker for me.which is a shame otherwise because i16 would have been a blast to fly as it was in IL2 and in WT. ( didnt have to deal with trim)

 

Besides to address the hypocritical "reality" response, neither is it realistic to have checkbox to use "auto rudder" for l16 so i dont see why there cant be a

" adjustable Trim" checkbox in the main menu.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

I spent almost 5 hours in this bird last night and found that if you're wanting to fly straight and level you need only dial in the correct amount of flaps for a given power setting to keep the VSI needle perfectly on 0. Not having rudder or aileron trim does, however, mean that you have to keep your hand on the stick at all times to prevent uncommanded roll. If you're going to deploy flaps to compensate for lack of elevator trim don't forget to add power during your turns though!

 

i haven't though of that thanks, will give it a try. though whats the speed that you need to have them folded? Wouldn't they rip past a certain speed?

Edited May 11, 2019 by Kev2go

[RudderButt]

You're welcome! That's a terrific question that I don't know the answer to yet. I need to experiment to test both the airframe's limits and the quality of the damage model. However, if you deploy the flaps first, say 10 degrees at a time, and then set the power accordingly I doubt you'll do any damage (vs dropping flaps with everything wide open). The flaps generate a tremendous amount of lift. The empennage being so near to the wings, I would assume the center of gravity is closer to the true center of the airframe. At least that's how it "feels" because the flaps cause it to teeter-totter along the pitch axis much more so than planes with a longer fuselage.

Edited May 11, 2019 by RudderButt

[McShetty]

Well it appears you can not deploy the flaps if you're going "fast". Which is fine. I'm just adding info.

 

 

For the lack of trim. I don't really mind but it does limit how long I'm willing to fly it.

[XtraChrisP]

... neither is it realistic to have checkbox to use "auto rudder" for l16 so i dont see why there cant be a

" adjustable or auto Trim" checkbox in the main menu.

 

Good call on the "auto trim" option. I think that's a good compromise between reality and user friendliness. Maybe if enough people ask for it OctopusG will code it in.

[probad]

what are you even flying this airplane for if you cut out every distinctive aspect just because its an inconvenience?

[McShetty]

what are you even flying this airplane for if you cut out every distinctive aspect just because its an inconvenience?

Not to be mean but you're implying that everybody should have fun your way only.

[RustBelt]

The design doc for the I-16:

 

• Engine
  
• Wings
  
• Some guns
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
  
• (only capitalist dogs need this)
   
  
• At least four more levers than capitalist planes
  
• Compass heating
  

 

Gotta get your priorities right, tovarish. The I-16 is a very hands on little repurposed lawnmower, you gotta love it for that:)

 

Hey 2 of those levers re-cock the guns when the Mosin-Nagant rounds jamb the guns.

[fencible]

I agree with RudderButt - I put on a few turns of flap when cruising to keep the nose from wanting to drop. Why not? Easier to aim the guns, too, without fighting to keep the nose up. Somebody said that this is seat-of-the-pants flying. WWII P-40 ace, Stocky Edwards, used his own tricks to smooth out some of the bad handling characteristics of his ride while dueling with Me-109Fs. Worked for him. He survived.

 

I think that the 4 machine guns seem a bit too powerful, though. They're only .30 calibre guns, but they seem to be more effective than the 6X .50 calibre guns in a P51D!

Yes, they have a high rate of fire, and they are concentrated in a fairly tight group, but they tear up a FW-190D9 like they were cannons or at least .50s. Is this a compensation to make the module more acceptable?

Edited May 12, 2019 by fencible

[IronJockel]

 

Besides to address the hypocritical "reality" response, neither is it realistic to have checkbox to use "auto rudder" for l16, so I don't see why there can't be a

" adjustable or auto Trim" checkbox in the main menu.

 

 

 

Auto rudder is for people that don't have paddles, to ease up on take off, as twist sticks may not be precise enough to deal with engine toque appropriately, what could make the aircraft unusable for some customers.

It does not add a control feature that the plane did not have, unlike an auto trim features, which is something you may find in more modern aircraft.

Auto trim would also make it easier to aim than it actually was. I don't think that this aircraft should have some kind of advantage, that it simply didn't have for the sake of user-friendliness.

 

I16 pilots were completely exhausted after patrols, as staying in formation without trim required them to constantly apply force to the stick. It was a serious drawback of the aircraft.

[Sydy]

Auto rudder is for people that don't have paddles, to ease up on take off, as twist sticks may not be precise enough to deal with engine toque appropriately, what could make the aircraft unusable for some customers.

It does not add a control feature that the plane did not have, unlike an auto trim features, which is something you may find in more modern aircraft.

Auto trim would also make it easier to aim than it actually was. I don't think that this aircraft should have some kind of advantage, that it simply didn't have for the sake of user-friendliness.

 

I16 pilots were completely exhausted after patrols, as staying in formation without trim required them to constantly apply force to the stick. It was a serious drawback of the aircraft.

 

Very wise post, IronJockel. very wise.

 

When I see people asking for “auto trim” in a pre WWII aircraft, I really read it as here it is “a whining gamer” instead of a “serious simmer”. I apologize for being so direct, but I see no sense to fly the DCS I-16 asking for some “artificial filter” for the flying quality although I do understand the “auto rudder”. Go fly IL-2 or War Thunder for that matter.

 

Anyway, nobody is forced to fly anything in a certain way. I know I loved it the way it is and I’m having fun. Looking forward to see a campaign in it and some more documentation.

 

All the best,

 

Sydy

[Kev2go]

The point of swimming is still to have fun. If anything I think it's the serious simmers that need pull that stick out of their rears and realize this is still a virtual game and not real life.

 

 

If other modules have functions added to ease certain functions then I don't see why this one cant.

 

A simple checkbox is the solution other modules have done this. Therefore then there is a choice. For both types.

 

Hardcore simmers can "tire" themselves out if they want applying force on the stick to compensate for lack of trim. And no adjustable trim isn't only in modern aircraft. It's there in the ww2 built fighters, but I guess they want everyone to suffer the same way.( on your high horse anyone?)

 

But whatever I learned my lesson. Don't buy a module until someone's made a review to avoid any surprise. because this certainly wasn't a disclaimer listed on the purchasing page

Edited May 13, 2019 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

Very wise post, IronJockel. very wise.

 

When I see people asking for “auto trim” in a pre WWII aircraft, I really read it as here it is “a whining gamer” instead of a “serious simmer”. I apologize for being so direct, but I see no sense to fly the DCS I-16 asking for some “artificial filter” for the flying quality although I do understand the “auto rudder”. Go fly IL-2 or War Thunder for that matter.

 

Anyway, nobody is forced to fly anything in a certain way. I know I loved it the way it is and I’m having fun. Looking forward to see a campaign in it and some more documentation.

 

All the best,

 

Sydy

 

Considering there are no era appropriate opponents there really is no point in serious combat flying in i16 besides free flights or aerobatics at the moment.

 

And you shouldn't presume who isn't a serious simmer or not.

 

Because it's all on a spectrum. I've flown everything from ww2 to modern era without complaint so far. Because I was informed on features( or lack thereof) and because they all met my expectations

Edited May 13, 2019 by Kev2go