Will E-2D add ground surveillance？

[EcceHomo]

Will E-2D be able to scan ground targets and transmit them through data links to other aircraft in future?Will E-8 be added?

[Schmidtfire]

E-8 would be awesome. TGP and Eyeball sort of work, but would be nice to get more precise positions of enemy convoys and other targets.

[Gierasimov]

There is a hope:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3904821&postcount=1474

[Harlikwin]

E-8 would be awesome. TGP and Eyeball sort of work, but would be nice to get more precise positions of enemy convoys and other targets.

 

I think the Viggen Elint capability can sort of do this already.

[toilet2000]

I think the Viggen Elint capability can sort of do this already.

 

Not at all. ELINT = ELectronic INTelligence. The Viggen ELINT pod simply infers RADAR EMITTERS positions from various sources (triangulation, strength or other), but the target has to be emitting radar energy.

 

Currently, no module is able to track GMTIs. As for datalink, the A-10C can transmit SPIs or receive JTAC requests (hardly a form of ground target datalink) and the Ka-50s can share targets from 4 different types with up to 4 wingmen.

[Harlikwin]

Not at all. ELINT = ELectronic INTelligence. The Viggen ELINT pod simply infers RADAR EMITTERS positions from various sources (triangulation, strength or other), but the target has to be emitting radar energy.

 

Currently, no module is able to track GMTIs. As for datalink, the A-10C can transmit SPIs or receive JTAC requests (hardly a form of ground target datalink) and the Ka-50s can share targets from 4 different types with up to 4 wingmen.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant from a functionality standpoint. Its there on the viggen kneeboard, you can fly an elint mission, and it reports the emitters, so you could "code" it so the E2 with a ground mapping radar or Jstars/Rivet joint etc could presumably use the same functionality to "find" targets dynamically in-game using ground mapping radar or Elint methods and report them on the kneeboard (kludgy compared to IRL, but hey thats DCS).

[Tom Kazansky]

How does identifying ground targets with radar work IRL? Do tanks, SAM launchers,... reflect a specific signature? Is there any IFF?

[Schmidtfire]

@Harlikwin

 

I think you might be complicating this a bit :)

Easiest way would probably be to use same old tech as for AWACS. But set E-8 so it scans and reports vehicle groups.

[toilet2000]

How does identifying ground targets with radar work IRL? Do tanks, SAM launchers,... reflect a specific signature? Is there any IFF?

 

 

AFAIK, it mostly uses the Doppler returns, but a much lower "rate" than typical a2a radars. Wiki has an interesting article on GMTIs. There's probably a bunch of other stuff going into that, as some radar systems are able to distinguish between several subtypes of targets (eg tracked or wheeled vehicles), such as the Longbow radar on the Apache. My guess is that it seeks specific return signatures.

 

 

Target ID surely happen using EO/IR or on-the-field reports with sensor/data fusion accomplished by computers and/or operators in the Joint STARS or any C2 aircraft.

[Tom Kazansky]

AFAIK, it mostly uses the Doppler returns, but a much lower "rate" than typical a2a radars. Wiki has an interesting article on GMTIs. There's probably a bunch of other stuff going into that, as some radar systems are able to distinguish between several subtypes of targets (eg tracked or wheeled vehicles), such as the Longbow radar on the Apache. My guess is that it seeks specific return signatures.

 

 

Target ID surely happen using EO/IR or on-the-field reports with sensor/data fusion accomplished by computers and/or operators in the Joint STARS or any C2 aircraft.

 

 

Ty. Makes sense. Found the article you mentioned.Together with EO/IR it should be quite effective. Yes, I want this for DCS :thumbup:

[Harlikwin]

AFAIK, it mostly uses the Doppler returns, but a much lower "rate" than typical a2a radars. Wiki has an interesting article on GMTIs. There's probably a bunch of other stuff going into that, as some radar systems are able to distinguish between several subtypes of targets (eg tracked or wheeled vehicles), such as the Longbow radar on the Apache. My guess is that it seeks specific return signatures.

 

 

Target ID surely happen using EO/IR or on-the-field reports with sensor/data fusion accomplished by computers and/or operators in the Joint STARS or any C2 aircraft.

 

Electronic intel gathering like this is fairly complex, but modern milimetric radars can basically "see" in radar like what you'd "see" in FLIR for example (not seeing heat, but rather radar reflective surfaces), after a ton of computer processing and sharpening etc. So deepening on range and the aperture of the radar system, you could basically tell:

 

There is a vehicle there

Its a tank like object

Its probably a T-XX or arty or whatever else

 

And of course its corroberated with other sensors. I.e. Signal intercepts, oh hey, there's a signal on 35mhz FM there, that fits with typically used tank frequencies (yeah yeah I know FH, but its interceptable too). Or Sat/airborne imagery, FLIR, some poor SF dude hiding in a hole shitting in a plastic bag and reporting on it as it rolls by or whatever.

 

At the end of the day DCS would need some sort of "briefing/intel" air tasking order functionality somehow implemented for this to be of any use. And at the end of the day, they wouldn't model any of that, but most likely just do the air tasking order bit based on "intel" which would basically be the computer generating the units and the tasking order for you to drop bombs on.

[Tom Kazansky]

Ty Harlikwin. Inspired by your info I tried to find a picture of what radar "sees". And there is a quite impressive example. Guess it's against rule 1.16 to post it here but it is easily found with DARPA TRACE and HPEC keywords.

 

 

 

A shame that we'll never be able to sit in a DCS module for that kind of reconnaissance and targeting because of confidentiality. Would be cool if I was wrong.

 

 

Other examples are to find with "Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) Imagery"

Edited May 16, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[EcceHomo]

Ty Harlikwin. Inspired by your info I tried to find a picture of what radar "sees". And there is a quite impressive example. Guess it's against rule 1.16 to post it here but it is easily found with DARPA TRACE and HPEC keywords.

 

 

 

A shame that we'll never be able to sit in a DCS module for that kind of reconnaissance and targeting because of confidentiality. Would be cool if I was wrong.

 

 

Other examples are to find with "Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) Imagery"

 

APG-73 has SAR，in the Internet, SAR images of APG-68V9 and APG-76 are easy to find.

Link 16 can transmit early warning aircraft and E-8 ground surveillance。

[Tom Kazansky]

APG-73 has SAR，in the Internet, SAR images of APG-68V9 and APG-76 are easy to find.

Link 16 can transmit early warning aircraft and E-8 ground surveillance。

 

 

Any chance that we will get SAR of that quality here for the Hornet?

[Kev2go]

Any chance that we will get SAR of that quality here for the Hornet?

 

hornet SAR wont be anywhere near DARPA trace images, or the type of SAR you see in AESA radars like in the F35

[Tom Kazansky]

O.k. I'm not surprised too much. Anyway there have to be some goddies left for DCS 3.0 or later. ;)

[EcceHomo]

Any chance that we will get SAR of that quality here for the Hornet?

 

APG-73 phase II meets at least the accuracy requirements of JDAM. the accuracy is 30 ft.