Carrier comms - Mini Updates

[Tippis]

Well. I'm not at all that long on these forums, but I read the same things over and over. People prefer to get things free

…good thing that no-one has asked for the addon to be free then.

 

People can repeat that ignorant strawman until they're blue in the face — it will not change the fact that they have no actual argument to counter the very real issues raised and the very obvious consequences of this scheme. Nor does the strawman hide the unfortunate fact that they ultimately are the ones suggesting ED should not get paid.

 

Yeah, true, and not really comparable as you're not using those modules since you can't fly two birds at once.

True and comparable since the people who don't intend to pay for this module also don't intend to use it. Again, not a difficult concept — it's just a repetition of the same strawman idea that people want something without paying for it.

[OhsH]

the whining is justified from the multiplayer side of it which is "dont lock people out of playing multiplayer servers that have it if they wont use it"

[remi]

When you put it like that they should start charging us per new weapon they add to the Hornet/Viper, we already paid for it after all and what's $10 for a TGP when you've spent thousands already.

 

You didn't already buy the dedicated carrier operations module, it's not even available. :doh:

[Wizard_03]

It’s not going to divide the community if we all buy it. You already spent 70 bucks on the hornet 60 for the PG map. Why would you do that and NOT buy the carrier?!? Lol

[OhsH]

It’s not going to divide the community if we all buy it. You already spent 70 bucks on the hornet 60 for the PG map. Why would you do that and NOT buy the carrier?!? Lol

 

because I wont use it. i'm using the things that i already chose to spend money on.

[shagrat]

It's really not. If you don't want to carrier, don't buy it. Simple concept of choice.

 

The real problem is that some people just want everything with minimal cost/effort/younameit. That only exists in dreams.

The fun thing is there already is free carrier ATC, so the whining is mostly missing the point, as online servers will either use the scripts/free community solution and be open for the community...Or server admins decide to go for the full monty and have a carrier ops server with the full blown carrier module. My guess is, the people joining the carrier ops will have bought the carrier module anyway.

[OhsH]

The fun thing is there already is free carrier ATC, so the whining is mostly missing the point, as online servers will either use the scripts/free community solution and be open for the community...Or server admins decide to go for the full monty and have a carrier ops server with the full blown carrier module. My guess is, the people joining the carrier ops will have bought the carrier module anyway.

 

so its going to.... divide the community???

[Tippis]

You already spent 70 bucks on the hornet 60 for the PG map. Why would you do that and NOT buy the carrier?!? Lol

Because the guy who spent 0 bucks on DCS and then, after some coaxing, got the A-10 for $20 on a Steam sale has no need for a carrier.

 

If you can't connect the dots by now, I suggest you go back and actually read the argument before you try to counter it.

[Gladman]

The fun thing is there already is free carrier ATC, so the whining is mostly missing the point, as online servers will either use the scripts/free community solution and be open for the community...Or server admins decide to go for the full monty and have a carrier ops server with the full blown carrier module. My guess is, the people joining the carrier ops will have bought the carrier module anyway.

 

Thats easy to say if you have 5 guys. We have around 100.

[remi]

Because the guy who spent 0 bucks on DCS and then, after some coaxing, got the A-10 for $20 on a Steam sale has no need for a carrier.

 

If you can't connect the dots by now, I suggest you go back and actually read the argument before you try to counter it.

 

Yeah, and that same guy has no joystick, rudder pedals, throttle...

 

Give me a break. :doh:

[Tippis]

Yeah, and that same guy has no joystick, rudder pedals, throttle..

Says who? Do you have anything to offer rather than strawmen, non sequiturs, and conjunction fallacies?

 

Respond to the argument, please.

[OhsH]

gatekeeping owns

 

 

like making me spend money on something i wont use to play with people online because "you spent all this other money already, why are you being such a baby???"

[OperatorJack]

It’s not going to divide the community if we all buy it. You already spent 70 bucks on the hornet 60 for the PG map. Why would you do that and NOT buy the carrier?!? Lol

 

 

Because where does it end.

 

 

I've got to pay $40 per plane and then $60 for the map and the map assets so I don't have to shoot at BMP-2s if I want to play WW2

 

 

I now need to pay for an aircraft carrier module I won't use just because I want some proper ATC and no other part of it.

 

By your argument why shouldn't ED just charge us for every content addition to the game full stop? Why should we get anything for free from this point on?

[ams999]

I'm not going to buy the carrier, mostly because I have no interest in carrier operations.

 

So I guess I'll have to wait and see if servers on my favorites list will implement it at all and if yes whether they stick with it should they stay fairly empty. Time will tell.

[DSauer]

Require the server operator to own the thing in order to place it on the map and call it a day. You still get your foreign currency and everyone can continue to play on their favorite servers even if they have no interest in carrier ops. This isn't hard and a certain competing product uses this model quite successfully in the WWII category.

 

The toxic sycophancy and boot licking is remarkable.

[Zoomer]

I think ED should just stop further developments and upgrades to the game so those wishing to hold on to their money and not purchase any further content would be happy and remain silent. But then of course I feel such people would be the first to whinge about said lack of development. Luckily you have free will to spend or not to spend, just put that free will into practice and let the rest of us do the same.

[remi]

Says who? Do you have anything to offer rather than strawmen, non sequiturs, and conjunction fallacies?

 

Respond to the argument, please.

 

The person you described does not exist.

 

If he actually does, can you provide his username? I seriously doubt there's a ton of players who just buy one module on discount and expect the full experience without the proper controllers.

[OperatorJack]

The person you described does not exist.

 

If he actually does, can you provide his username? I seriously doubt there's a ton of players who just buy one module on discount and expect the full experience without the proper controllers.

 

 

The controllers have nothing to do with the full experience. I know guys who flew the A-10 with a Logitech 3d pro and a rigged up cheapo open source head tracking.

 

 

He still gets the full experience of the module regardless of his controls. You don't need a £3000 setup to get the full experience and I'm back onto my point of elitism in the community.

[Nerdwing]

The person you described does not exist.

 

If he actually does, can you provide his username? I seriously doubt there's a ton of players who just buy one module on discount and expect the full experience without the proper controllers.

 

Slot off, fragface!!!!

[dawgie79]

…good thing that no-one has asked for the addon to be free then.

 

People can repeat that ignorant strawman until they're blue in the face — it will not change the fact that they have no actual argument to counter the very real issues raised and the very obvious consequences of this scheme. Nor does the strawman hide the unfortunate fact that they ultimately are the ones suggesting ED should not get paid.

 

True and comparable since the people who don't intend to pay for this module also don't intend to use it. Again, not a difficult concept — it's just a repetition of the same strawman idea that people want something without paying for it.

Whining that it's going to divide the online community (which is something yet to be seen, we don't even know if and what solution ED comes up with), is the same as wanting it to be (partially) free. So stop with your "strawman"-argument, it's not gonna fly for that reason.

 

So yeah. Still the problem is people want all for minimal or no cost and effort.

 

But like I said. I don't really care either way since I'm not an online player. I just am surprised every time ED announces something, whole hordes of people come and complain about this, or that, or whatever. The minority just seems happy with an announcement. That's just sad if you ask me. :)

[Tippis]

The person you described does not exist.

Wrong. He comes by every other month or so. We spend a fair amount of time talking through binds, setups, the dark abyss of endless spending in front of them, try not to laugh (too much) when he ploughs into buildings, and cheer when all three wheels leave the tarmac the first time (before said building-ploughing occurs).

 

I seriously doubt there's a ton of players who just buy one module on discount and expect the full experience without the proper controllers.

So we add argument from incredulity to the list of fallacies, then. It's as strawman too, but we've already put a checkmark in front of that one.

 

Whining that it's going to divide the online community (which is something yet to be seen, we don't even know if and what solution ED comes up with), is the same as wanting it to be (partially) free.

No, and no, in that order.

 

We already know it will divide the community for the simple reason that it cannot possibly not do so under the current scheme. It is inherent with the implementation. We also already know that a number of communities have decided not to feature this module on their servers because it is fundamentally incompatible with running servers for such communities.

 

Asking it not add artificial thresholds to MP participation is not in any way, shape, or form, the same as wanting it to be free — partially or otherwise. Asking that it be possible to join a server that is using the module without owning it yourself is only ever that: asking that it be possible to join the server that is using the module without owning it yourself. Nothing in that implies any desire of wanting to be able to use the module. A-10 pilots who join a server with F-14 slots do not want the F-14 to be free (partially or otherwise). Su-25T pilots who join a server with JTAC slots do not want CE to be free (partially or otherwise). More to the point, no-one in their right might wants the A-10 and the Su-25T pilots to be barred from playing with the F-14 and JTAC players just because they don't own the modules.

 

And yes, doing so — having hard restrictions on who can play with whom based on what they own, irrespective of what they want to own — does by very definition divide the community.

 

So stop with your "strawman"-argument, it's not gonna fly for that reason.

I will stop calling out strawman arguments when people stop using them to cover up their lack of actual argumentation. This will not happen, of course, since… well… they lack actual arguments. Again, it's kind of inherent.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Tippis

[Keks]

I am not paying for core features.

 

Whats next? Buy this airport?

 

Even more so since the current state of the game is abysmal. Look at the Ka-50 for example, it does not work propperly with the current engine, but no one cares. At the same time money for a carrier?`

 

I would be less anoyed if the game and its modules would be currently working.

[Nerdwing]

I am a single player player, and being unaffected by the potential discrepancies and disruptions in gameplay that the MP community may face, it falls to me to defend the devs honor.

 

Come! Face me, you multiplayer apes!!!! I'll strike you all down to a man!!!

 

Long live ED!!!!

[OperatorJack]

 

 

I'd like to submit this image for the sake of arguing that having a full control setup has no bearing on getting the full experience out of the software.

[shagrat]

Because the guy who spent 0 bucks on DCS and then, after some coaxing, got the A-10 for $20 on a Steam sale has no need for a carrier.

 

If you can't connect the dots by now, I suggest you go back and actually read the argument before you try to counter it.

Yeah, but that guy isn't exactly buying the Carrier module either. So he will continue with the A-10 instead of getting hyped for carrier ops. Or he feels the need for the Tomcat or the Hornet and buys into the whole experience.

There usually is a market for something or there isn't. I'd love to see a solution to carrier ops light combined with the new module, but I can't see how? Have cheaper "players" see empty ocean? Oh, wait, I have an idea. ED could do this like the major labels, just launch a new game titled "NAVY Carrier Ops" based on DCS as a separate game. Include the finished Hornet with some more assets and features together with the F-14 special version and the new carrier, for a full game price and fully incompatible with DCS World?