Moafuleum Posted July 22, 2019 Posted July 22, 2019 This obviously begs the question: does DCS feature ground vehicles taking critical damage to systems now? In other words: will an alive SAM unit lose its radar? No, in fact the actual damage model for ground units is based on a "life-bar" system. The unit is destroyed when the life points reach zero. This was stated in a recent interview by wags. It is going to change in the future, however. The question that follows from that is: Is it reasonable to model the HARM 'incorrectly' as well to account for the aforementioned incorrect behavior? Because the more realistic HARM behavior leads to the fact that it is ultimately unusuable right now..and since the only purpose of the HARM is to render vehicles unuseable upon hit :music_whistling: A suggestion would be that for the time, the method of "one error cancelles another" is applied, until a proper ground unit damage model is introduced.
ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2019 ED Team Posted July 22, 2019 I am going to do some tests tonight, I am sure this might be affected by limited ground damage model, but unless something changed recently, it wasn't working that bad for me. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
cthulhu68 Posted July 22, 2019 Posted July 22, 2019 No, in fact the actual damage model for ground units is based on a "life-bar" system. The unit is destroyed when the life points reach zero. I've noticed with SAMs and other vehicles that if health bar is low 10% or maybe less they wont work any more but arent "dead". Having this inoperable state start at 20-25% might work as a quick fix, assuming improved vehicle damage model wont be happening soon.
Xoho Posted July 22, 2019 Posted July 22, 2019 I believe I reported this before on the discord when using the HARM vs S-300 radars, as the HARM would home to the mid-point of the antenna tower rather than the radar and explode midair, leaving a rather buggy effect and doing very little damage. (It required 3+ hits to disable a radar tower)
nighthawk2174 Posted July 23, 2019 Posted July 23, 2019 Yeah I have seen this behavior as well some temporary fix is required bu what an optimal solution could be i'm unsure, although the idea of raising the limit where a SAM looses its ability to use its radar to a higher value is reasonable imo.
backspace340 Posted July 23, 2019 Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) As you can see from the twitch video - this isn't a case of units taking marginal damage from the missile, it's that the missile hits, detonates, but the units take no damage. Their health bars are still at 100%, as though the missile never even happened. Edited July 23, 2019 by backspace340
ED Team NineLine Posted July 23, 2019 ED Team Posted July 23, 2019 I've noticed with SAMs and other vehicles that if health bar is low 10% or maybe less they wont work any more but arent "dead". Having this inoperable state start at 20-25% might work as a quick fix, assuming improved vehicle damage model wont be happening soon. This can also be done in the ME as a workaround as well. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Werewolf_fs Posted July 23, 2019 Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) After several tests, it is true that the units actually take damage even if it is not appreciated. The health bar is red after an impact of the harm, so the mission creators would be worth the option "damaged unit" would be worth to associate triggers to the "deactivation" of a SAM by the player. I will have to modify my sead missions Edited July 23, 2019 by Werewolf_fs
ED Team NineLine Posted July 23, 2019 ED Team Posted July 23, 2019 I did some tests this morning and last night, and I found that every HARM hit either resulted in the destruction of the unit, or enough damage that it ended up becoming destroyed as it burned to the ground. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Werewolf_fs Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) I did some tests this morning and last night, and I found that every HARM hit either resulted in the destruction of the unit, or enough damage that it ended up becoming destroyed as it burned to the ground. Well, on our last flight online we continue to notice inconsistency with the Harm. 4xF/A-18C Hornet, Mission SEAD over the Strait of Hormuz. 2xAGM-88 4xCBU-99 *First Target a SA-6, direct target and surprisingly destroy it, ok .. *Second target an SA-8, damages it, and disable, not destroy, ok ... *Third, one Rapier (two launchers + radar) two direct impacts and the battery was still operational.. umm..... *Fourth, SA11 (two launchers + radar), 2 impacts on the same launcher 1 without damaging or inoperative. 2 impact in launcher 2, 1 no damage, second destroit the unit.... ummmm..... I don't have the track now, because my DCS CTD, before the end of the mission and it's broken. I'm waiting for the host to pass it to me... The ability of the Harm warhead is still too small or erratic for me. Edited July 26, 2019 by Werewolf_fs
ED Team NineLine Posted July 27, 2019 ED Team Posted July 27, 2019 Ok, that is great, but unless you have a track, I can't do much with this. As I said, I really didn't have an issue. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Werewolf_fs Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Unfortunately the host track is also corrupt, we will fly the mission again and repeat the test in MP
JackFlash Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Ok, that is great, but unless you have a track, I can't do much with this. As I said, I really didn't have an issue. Well, I can not provide a track unfortunately, but I also can confirm that tree hits on a SA 10 TR cased no damage what so ever from the AGM-88... My latest project, the Multi Function Button Box can be found at Kickstarter.
nighthawk2174 Posted August 1, 2019 Posted August 1, 2019 I wonder if its that the hitbox doesn't include the tower?
discwalker Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) track and video https://drive.google.com/open?id=1X7fIc8N3pYqDwWZHldZHkFOTo0MdcM08 BATTLEFIELD-20190802-182813HARM_ineffective_against_SA11radars.trk 1 fa18c flight, from Beslan towards Minvody against a SA11 site with more radars in it Second hit on radar: (3rd or 4th shot) -The 3D model not damaged -BDA info show was on and nothing was displayed on hit EDIT: altough the hit radars go gout of operation, it would be better we know it from outside view or BDA info / F10 life bars are hidden, hidden units Edited August 2, 2019 by discwalker GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted August 2, 2019 ED Team Posted August 2, 2019 Tried to look at the track, but it is huge and would not play correctly for me. I just tested in open beta against SA-10 and had no issues Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
ED Team NineLine Posted August 2, 2019 ED Team Posted August 2, 2019 Will check again as well, but I have had no issue, if this is multiplayer, it's possible its some form of sync issue, but in this case, we would need to see user and server tracks. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
discwalker Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 Don't check. Radars are taken out by hits. But not shown in any way to me. Needed to fly them against again, and disappeared those from RWR. GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD
ED Team NineLine Posted August 2, 2019 ED Team Posted August 2, 2019 So you are reporting that the Radars are damaged, it's just not showing the damage? If that is the case it is known. A workaround right now is to add a smoke effect to the object when the damage reaches a certain damage percentage. Or something to that effect. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
discwalker Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 Initially i just post a track to a previously not merged thread where track was needed. Yes, finally i figured out the damage, what is not shown to me at first sight. GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD
Werewolf_fs Posted August 8, 2019 Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) After the last beta (2.5.5.34108 ) HARM has improved a lot. The warhead continues without being able to destroy certain targets, (SA6 for explample) that I think are acceptable or realistic, but others with little armor would be able to eliminate them, SA11 for example, that carries little armor and the missiles that it carries seft-detonation with the explosion of the harm, this only makes disable it most of the time not detroy!!. So it should always be destroyed the RAPIER radar, that 1 of three times inutilize it but does not destroy it and is not armored!!!. Edited August 8, 2019 by Werewolf_fs
nighthawk2174 Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 I wonder is it possible nineline that there could be a condition (for example) radar_damaged=1 when a unit is hit by a harm. And if the unit isn't destroyed to just apply the destroyed texture to the radar dish and maybe spawn a small smoke effect? I think this would be the best case solution for this.
ED Team NineLine Posted August 9, 2019 ED Team Posted August 9, 2019 I wonder is it possible nineline that there could be a condition (for example) radar_damaged=1 when a unit is hit by a harm. And if the unit isn't destroyed to just apply the destroyed texture to the radar dish and maybe spawn a small smoke effect? I think this would be the best case solution for this. Thanks for reminding me actually, I was going to feature request something like this, if they have the emitter shutting down with a certain amount of damage, it would be nice to at least have some smoke coming off it as well. Now, of course, you can do similar to this in ME, but yes, would be nice for it to just be part of the sim, at least till ground DM can be done. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
nighthawk2174 Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 Agreed until the damage model can be rebuilt I think stuff like what I recommended is the best solution. As to do that in the ME would either require a ton of triggers per radar or scripting both of which take time and can consume server resources, best to just have it built into the game.
cosmicdoubloon Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 @Nineline I think that's already in the game in a very basic form, if a radar-equipped unit has its health go below a certain threshold it becomes 'disabled'. The radar dish stops spinning and it won't engage air targets, but can still move and I think engage ground threats if it has a gun (shilka/gepard etc) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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