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Posted
This obviously begs the question: does DCS feature ground vehicles taking critical damage to systems now? In other words: will an alive SAM unit lose its radar?

 

 

No, in fact the actual damage model for ground units is based on a "life-bar" system. The unit is destroyed when the life points reach zero. This was stated in a recent interview by wags. It is going to change in the future, however.

 

 

 

The question that follows from that is: Is it reasonable to model the HARM 'incorrectly' as well to account for the aforementioned incorrect behavior? Because the more realistic HARM behavior leads to the fact that it is ultimately unusuable right now..and since the only purpose of the HARM is to render vehicles unuseable upon hit :music_whistling:

 

 

 

A suggestion would be that for the time, the method of "one error cancelles another" is applied, until a proper ground unit damage model is introduced.

Posted
No, in fact the actual damage model for ground units is based on a "life-bar" system. The unit is destroyed when the life points reach zero.

I've noticed with SAMs and other vehicles that if health bar is low 10% or maybe less they wont work any more but arent "dead". Having this inoperable state start at 20-25% might work as a quick fix, assuming improved vehicle damage model wont be happening soon.

 

Posted

I believe I reported this before on the discord when using the HARM vs S-300 radars, as the HARM would home to the mid-point of the antenna tower rather than the radar and explode midair, leaving a rather buggy effect and doing very little damage. (It required 3+ hits to disable a radar tower)

Posted

Yeah I have seen this behavior as well some temporary fix is required bu what an optimal solution could be i'm unsure, although the idea of raising the limit where a SAM looses its ability to use its radar to a higher value is reasonable imo.

Posted (edited)

As you can see from the twitch video - this isn't a case of units taking marginal damage from the missile, it's that the missile hits, detonates, but the units take no damage. Their health bars are still at 100%, as though the missile never even happened.

 

zBeM0uo.png

lNjdq1f.png

7I5qVzb.png

Edited by backspace340
  • ED Team
Posted
I've noticed with SAMs and other vehicles that if health bar is low 10% or maybe less they wont work any more but arent "dead". Having this inoperable state start at 20-25% might work as a quick fix, assuming improved vehicle damage model wont be happening soon.

 

This can also be done in the ME as a workaround as well.

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Posted (edited)

After several tests, it is true that the units actually take damage even if it is not appreciated. The health bar is red after an impact of the harm, so the mission creators would be worth the option "damaged unit" would be worth to associate triggers to the "deactivation" of a SAM by the player.

 

I will have to modify my sead missions

Edited by Werewolf_fs
Posted (edited)
I did some tests this morning and last night, and I found that every HARM hit either resulted in the destruction of the unit, or enough damage that it ended up becoming destroyed as it burned to the ground.

 

 

Well, on our last flight online we continue to notice inconsistency with the Harm.

 

4xF/A-18C Hornet, Mission SEAD over the Strait of Hormuz. 2xAGM-88 4xCBU-99

 

*First Target a SA-6, direct target and surprisingly destroy it, ok ..

 

*Second target an SA-8, damages it, and disable, not destroy, ok ...

 

*Third, one Rapier (two launchers + radar) two direct impacts and the battery was still operational.. umm.....

 

*Fourth, SA11 (two launchers + radar), 2 impacts on the same launcher 1 without damaging or inoperative. 2 impact in launcher 2, 1 no damage, second destroit the unit.... ummmm.....

 

 

I don't have the track now, because my DCS CTD, before the end of the mission and it's broken. I'm waiting for the host to pass it to me...

 

The ability of the Harm warhead is still too small or erratic for me.

Edited by Werewolf_fs
Posted
Ok, that is great, but unless you have a track, I can't do much with this. As I said, I really didn't have an issue.

 

Well, I can not provide a track unfortunately, but I also can confirm that tree hits on a SA 10 TR cased no damage what so ever from the AGM-88...

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Posted (edited)

track and video

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1X7fIc8N3pYqDwWZHldZHkFOTo0MdcM08

BATTLEFIELD-20190802-182813HARM_ineffective_against_SA11radars.trk

 

1 fa18c flight, from Beslan towards Minvody

against a SA11 site with more radars in it

 

Second hit on radar: (3rd or 4th shot)

 

-The 3D model not damaged

-BDA info show was on and nothing was displayed on hit

 

EDIT: altough the hit radars go gout of operation, it would be better we know it from outside view or BDA info / F10 life bars are hidden, hidden units

Edited by discwalker

GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD

  • ED Team
Posted

Tried to look at the track, but it is huge and would not play correctly for me.

 

I just tested in open beta against SA-10 and had no issues

Screen_190802_183738.thumb.jpg.40ce1ebe2283e8ce7d6b69e1c01d1bd3.jpg

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Posted

Don't check. Radars are taken out by hits. But not shown in any way to me.

Needed to fly them against again, and disappeared those from RWR.

GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD

  • ED Team
Posted

So you are reporting that the Radars are damaged, it's just not showing the damage? If that is the case it is known. A workaround right now is to add a smoke effect to the object when the damage reaches a certain damage percentage. Or something to that effect.

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Posted

Initially i just post a track to a previously not merged thread where track was needed.

Yes, finally i figured out the damage, what is not shown to me at first sight.

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Posted (edited)

After the last beta (2.5.5.34108 ) HARM has improved a lot. The warhead continues without being able to destroy certain targets, (SA6 for explample) that I think are acceptable or realistic, but others with little armor would be able to eliminate them, SA11 for example, that carries little armor and the missiles that it carries seft-detonation with the explosion of the harm, this only makes disable it most of the time not detroy!!. So it should always be destroyed the RAPIER radar, that 1 of three times inutilize it but does not destroy it and is not armored!!!.

Edited by Werewolf_fs
Posted

I wonder is it possible nineline that there could be a condition (for example) radar_damaged=1 when a unit is hit by a harm. And if the unit isn't destroyed to just apply the destroyed texture to the radar dish and maybe spawn a small smoke effect?

 

I think this would be the best case solution for this.

  • ED Team
Posted
I wonder is it possible nineline that there could be a condition (for example) radar_damaged=1 when a unit is hit by a harm. And if the unit isn't destroyed to just apply the destroyed texture to the radar dish and maybe spawn a small smoke effect?

 

I think this would be the best case solution for this.

 

Thanks for reminding me actually, I was going to feature request something like this, if they have the emitter shutting down with a certain amount of damage, it would be nice to at least have some smoke coming off it as well. Now, of course, you can do similar to this in ME, but yes, would be nice for it to just be part of the sim, at least till ground DM can be done.

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Posted

Agreed until the damage model can be rebuilt I think stuff like what I recommended is the best solution. As to do that in the ME would either require a ton of triggers per radar or scripting both of which take time and can consume server resources, best to just have it built into the game.

Posted

@Nineline I think that's already in the game in a very basic form, if a radar-equipped unit has its health go below a certain threshold it becomes 'disabled'. The radar dish stops spinning and it won't engage air targets, but can still move and I think engage ground threats if it has a gun (shilka/gepard etc)

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