JTAC Lasing "No Mark"?

[sgilewicz]

As the title says, the 9 line specifies target marked by laser (code 1688) at UTM coordinates MM823023 in Maple Flag's TTQ Mission 11. The issue is while creating a waypoint with the supplied coordinates the JTAC communicates a "No Mark" instruction. This creates a bit of a dilemma.

 

If I assume the laser mark has been cancelled and set up for self lasing I never get cleared in hot. On the other hand, if I assume that the target is, in fact, being lased then LSS never detects the laser even though the approach is from the proper IP and heading (seems that the instruction is correct).

 

Any ideas? Much appreciated!

[escaner]

IIRC, "no mark" means that there is no smoke marking the target. You probably need to report IP inbound and eventually ask him to laser on for the JTAC to start lasing. Keep checking the radio menu, there is a lot of talking to get the laser...

[Ramsay]

Any ideas? Much appreciated!

 

The JTAC will only fire the laser for 5 minutes, so you should call laser ON just prior to dropping your GBU-12.

 

There was a similar report Re: TTQ Mission 11 in the Maple Flag campaign forum that mentioned the JTAC giving a "No mark" call.

 

Comments

 

What Type of 9-line is it

 

• unit with line of sight - type 2 in effect (can lase)

• unit without line of sight - type 3 in effect (no mark)

 

in certain circumstances i.e. looking through a fence, the JTAC can see the Target but not lase it.

 

There have been some changes to JTAC lines of sight and ranges as ED update 2.5.x, so it's possible you've found a bug that requires a mission edit.

 

If you continue to have issues, perhaps make a separate post in the Maple Flag TTQ Campaign forum, so the right dev's get to see your report.

[Yurgon]

What Type of 9-line is it

 

• unit with line of sight - type 2 in effect (can lase)

• unit without line of sight - type 3 in effect (no mark)

 

I'm wondering where this comes from, because I've heard it over and over again.

 

To the very best of my knowledge, Type 2 and Type 3 are only different in how many attacks are cleared:

Type 2: Individual Attacks are cleared

Type 3: Multiple Attacks are cleared within one engagement

 

Other than that, the requirements for the JTAC acquiring the target and/or the attacking aircraft are 100% identical between Type 2 and Type 3, as far as I know.

 

On the topic at hand: I'm not sure how "mark" is handled in regards to marking the target for acquisition versus marking the target for terminal weapon guidance. Could it be that the distinction between these 2 causes the problem?

[Ramsay]

I'm wondering where this comes from, because I've heard it over and over again.

 

To the very best of my knowledge, Type 2 and Type 3 are only different in how many attacks are cleared:

Type 2: Individual Attacks are cleared

Type 3: Multiple Attacks are cleared within one engagement

 

Other than that, the requirements for the JTAC acquiring the target and/or the attacking aircraft are 100% identical between Type 2 and Type 3, as far as I know.

 

Thanks, AFAIK in DCS this translates to

 

Type 2: Individual Attacks, the designated target marked by smoke, laser or pointer

Type 3: A location co-ordinate and general area to engage

 

Which type a DCS JTAC uses is determined by line of sight, rather than the number of enemy units.

[sgilewicz]

Thanks everyone. Ramsay, from the link in your first post here: "I believe if the JTAC is lasing for too long they will turn off the laser and say "NO MARK". " I am getting the "No Mark" call long before heading in from the IP and calling "Laser On". Later in the same mission another tank is specified as a lased target and everything works fine. Still confused but I have some things to try and note. I will definitely post back here. Thanks again!

[Ziptie]

Always understood DCS to not have smoke marked on the target when they say "no mark." But I suppose "no mark" could mean "not lased" but never seemed to not be able to find the JTAC laser, even when they stated "no mark."

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[sgilewicz]

I think I have figured out the issue. I have typically placed my ride in an orbit while taking down all the JTAC instructions. Only after replying "remarks received" do I usually begin creating the new waypoint from the 9 line coordinates. I get a "no mark" every time prior to finishing the waypoint. It seems I am too slow with data entry! Creating the new waypoint during 9 line transmission enables me to make an IP inbound call with subsequent JTAC "continue" enabling me to prosecute the target. I have tried it twice successfully so it may be stupid simple on my part.

 

I am curious why the "no mark" when the JTAC laser hasn't even been turned on yet. I could understand if it was on and the user was concerned about burnout but the "no mark" call is made prior to "IP inbound". Not a problem if it is what it is, just like to know the logic. Thanks all!

[Ziptie]

I think I have figured out the issue. I have typically placed my ride in an orbit while taking down all the JTAC instructions. Only after replying "remarks received" do I usually begin creating the new waypoint from the 9 line coordinates. I get a "no mark" every time prior to finishing the waypoint. It seems I am too slow with data entry! Creating the new waypoint during 9 line transmission enables me to make an IP inbound call with subsequent JTAC "continue" enabling me to prosecute the target. I have tried it twice successfully so it may be stupid simple on my part.

 

I am curious why the "no mark" when the JTAC laser hasn't even been turned on yet. I could understand if it was on and the user was concerned about burnout but the "no mark" call is made prior to "IP inbound". Not a problem if it is what it is, just like to know the logic. Thanks all!

 

Realistically the controller might not mark the target be it smoke, laser, gun fire or anything else. Without mark the target is identified by position and description.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3210863

 

Found this other thread, albeit under a different airframe sub-thread, but their statement is accurate....

 

I believe that is what is going on in your case as well, "no mark" meaning that they are simply giving you the coordinates for the target without actually lasing it or deploying smoke on the intended target.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[QuiGon]

I'm wondering where this comes from, because I've heard it over and over again.

 

To the very best of my knowledge, Type 2 and Type 3 are only different in how many attacks are cleared:

Type 2: Individual Attacks are cleared

Type 3: Multiple Attacks are cleared within one engagement

 

Other than that, the requirements for the JTAC acquiring the target and/or the attacking aircraft are 100% identical between Type 2 and Type 3, as far as I know.

 

On the topic at hand: I'm not sure how "mark" is handled in regards to marking the target for acquisition versus marking the target for terminal weapon guidance. Could it be that the distinction between these 2 causes the problem?

There's some nice info here on how the different CAS types work: https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/055-forward-air-controllers/

[timo144]

How did you even manage to get the jtac to use the IP..

[sgilewicz]

timo144,

 

Not sure what you mean. I'm orbiting around the IP while setting up the target coordinates and weapon profile that the 9 line and remarks have passed. Once they are set I call "IP inbound" and JTAC will acknowledge with "continue".

[Ziptie]

How did you even manage to get the jtac to use the IP..

 

IP stands for initial point, hence why you call IP inbound, and you are inbound from the initial point. It doesn’t have any context in terms of weapons or the laser.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[QuiGon]

IP stands for initial point, hence why you call IP inbound, and you are inbound from the initial point. It doesn’t have any context in terms of weapons or the laser.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

You can assign IPs in the mission editor, which the JTAC is then supposed to make use of. That doesn't work properly atm. See here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=247720