ED Team Groove Posted October 9, 2007 ED Team Posted October 9, 2007 Another great thing about the Raptor in the BVR scene, is that the Raptor's computers and radar systems are all data-linked to other Raptors and AWACS, and vise versa. What one Raptor sees 500 miles to the east, a Raptor just taking off or in another area can now see with out even talking to that pilot, it is put on one of his MFDs. Last time I flew the Su in Lockon I didn't remember seeing that, so there is one leg up for the Blue team. MIG-31 with light bulbs computers :D Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
ED Team Groove Posted October 9, 2007 ED Team Posted October 9, 2007 http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-246V3.pdf Here's AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT DEMONSTRATIONS (F-22) PROCEDURES, I assume it's still current. You can see that there are strict limitations on what can be done. I think the procedures for the Mig/Su would be "BET YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WOOHOOO!!!" From the PDF FIle: Introduction Good morning/afternoon ladies and gentlemen, today we’ll be seeing a performance by the United States Air Force’s air supremacy fighter, which will be operational within the next few years. Taking the active runway is the USAF/Lockheed-Martin F-22 Raptor! This aircraft has the capability of being able to see, identify, and destroy the enemy before ever being detected in any threat environment, at any time. This is called “…first look, first kill”. No other fighter in the world has this capability, which makes the Raptor the worlds first and only operational Air Supremacy Fighter. At the controls of the F-22 this morn- from hometown, a veteran fighter pilot with more than number hours in jet air- ing/afternoon is rank/name is rank/name from hometown and rank/name from hometown. craft. Launching rank/name Takeoff Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
Rhino104 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Posted October 9, 2007 Yea that manual is 5 years old. I did not know about the Mig-31 system.
GGTharos Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Datalinks and GCI guidance are nothing new. The level of integration a Raptor has onboard /and/ off-board /is/. You don't want to fight that bird BVR, and you shouldn't be looking to engage it WVR either - the '0 kts' stuff is for showing off controllability ... you do NOT do that in a dogfight if you can help it, 'cause your target's wingman will eat you ... exactly the same reason you avoid Cobras. WVR, the Raptor still gets the first shot, and maneuver-wise? 'Sustained 60-deg AoA' should really have a meaning for you if you can understand what it'll get you. Dissing the F-22 is suicidal ... taking it seriously might allow you to survive in a few cases. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
geno409 Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 I whatched the raptor at lockeed do this arobatic stuff and it was not even a air show.I think it was a flight demo for lockeed employees.Because I puulled up at the wallmart parking lot when it was taking off.For approxamently 25 min I was in diss belief at what I shaw.My wife says to me why is it hovering like that ,I laughed at her.The man standing beside me said is there a air show going on.All I can say is that demo was the second neatest thing I ever saw a plane do.The first neatest air show demo I saw was in the 70s when a KC-135 did a roll over the base at a air show.
Xealot Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Why are people talking about its BVR capabilities anyway, its completely irrelevant to the topic and any person with a bit of clue knows it is the best today The community newbie http://winsbydefault.com/pics/dctf1ibxh7.gif Replace this image! It's too big! © Administration (max size: 150pix height, 50kb)
cool_t Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Hu? Any one know the last time an F-22 or a Mig-Su went head to head? Air shows are fine and dandy but flipin arround and doing jumping jacks in any jet "In Combat" would be rare. I can see where these moves could make you win a Dog Fight. But who wants to get low and slow in a fluid battle zone? :doh:
Evil Koala Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 I was at that airshow, and while the manauvers were impressive, they're nowhere near as impressive as the videos of the SU-37. But thats not a measure of its combat capability. It just cant wow crowds of people quite the same.
Yellonet Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Thats what I say to all the boys ;) Mizzy:D i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
Mizzy Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 I knew by posting this all the Su and Mig Fanbois (yes I will use the word because it is appropriate here) would come out, defending their great aircraft. (There, I said that too, I agree that the Su's and Mig's are pretty good.) Rhino you sound like a fanboi, instead of the Su/Mig your a fanboi of the F22. Can't you see you have contradicted your own thread title!! Mizzy
Yellonet Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Why are people talking about its BVR capabilities anyway, its completely irrelevant to the topic and any person with a bit of clue knows it is the best today These threads always go off-topic, my prediction in the second post unfortunately became true... fanboys :huh: i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
Rhino104 Posted October 10, 2007 Author Posted October 10, 2007 Rhino you sound like a fanboi, instead of the Su/Mig your a fanboi of the F22. Can't you see you have contradicted your own thread title!! Mizzy I'm not contradicting myself at all. And yes, I am an F-22 fanboi, I am an American military fanboi. I guess you could just call me patriotic. I am very proud of that F-22 and the American ingenuity and manpower behind it. Yes, there still are Americans on this forum. Posting this video was more to show that hey, we can do this too now (super-maneuverability). Again, I hope that this thing never has to be used in anger, but if it is, I feel comfort in the fact that we have the best trained and educated pilots in the entire world, with the best technology possible at their fingertips. That alone makes for a pretty stone-cold killer.
tflash Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 The F-22 is truly a superb plane. Very nice lines, very clean. And then these materials! I really find it the same class as when the all-white F-15A saw light in the early seventies. Take into account that the F-15 then was already meant for flight high in the skies; the F-22 likes angels 50. These are beautiful blue sky birds, not meant for the profane world of your average froggy or warthog. It's a question of style, really ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
zaelu Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 I'm not contradicting myself at all. And yes, I am an F-22 fanboi, I am an American military fanboi. I guess you could just call me patriotic. I am very proud of that F-22 and the American ingenuity and manpower behind it. Yes, there still are Americans on this forum. Posting this video was more to show that hey, we can do this too now (super-maneuverability). Again, I hope that this thing never has to be used in anger, but if it is, I feel comfort in the fact that we have the best trained and educated pilots in the entire world, with the best technology possible at their fingertips. That alone makes for a pretty stone-cold killer. :cheer3nc::yay::juggle::clown_2: Vivaa Las Vegas! Hey, you know... let me remind you something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY :pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A, Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least
Vekkinho Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Really nice video, but I doubt there's gonna be any Kulbits and power loops if Su-37 and F-22 ever meet in air! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 They wont because Su-37 is history and probably suplanted bu SU-35BM already. .
Rhino104 Posted October 10, 2007 Author Posted October 10, 2007 :cheer3nc::yay::juggle::clown_2: Vivaa Las Vegas! Hey, you know... let me remind you something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY :pilotfly: Sorry, dont speak German. Perhaps you could "remind me" on here in english.
tflash Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Rhino104, do you really mean you do not know Rammstein? Man, what a deep cultural divide! Let me explain: you guys got F-22, we got Rammstein. I'm happy that way. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Cyb0rg Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 :cheer3nc::yay::juggle::clown_2: Vivaa Las Vegas! Hey, you know... let me remind you something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY :pilotfly: Houston : we have a problem.. :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asteroids ____________________________________________ Update this :D
TucksonSonny Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-246V3.pdf Here's AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT DEMONSTRATIONS (F-22) PROCEDURES, I assume it's still current. You can see that there are strict limitations on what can be done. I think the procedures for the Mig/Su would be "BET YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WOOHOOO!!!" So what you are saying is that the poor acrobatically performance of the raptor is the result of the harsh rules of AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT DEMONSTRATIONS procedures. About acrobats: Sorry not with me! (After seeing the su-mig videos of Maks2007 :D) About BVR: The mig/su doctrine used by Russia and China is a defending doctrine supported by high numbers of S-300/400 units. Again the F-22 was designed with an offensive doctrine in mind to penetrate deep into enemy space and to defeat S-300 units (the recent S-400 units were developed to counter these F-22 threads). Since cold war is over it is obvious that the defending doctrine is the most logical and politically correct doctrine. But I do understand that the F-22 will be extremely practical to deal with regimes like Iran. DELL Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 940 2,93 GHz @3 GHz, 8 MB cache | 8.192 MB 1.067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 | 512 MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 | 500 GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA | Samsung SM 2693 HM 25.5 " | HOTAS Cougar Thrustmaster |
Avimimus Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 You can see the strings! (Just kidding, although it is hard to analyse due to the telephoto) (Of course, first stating that the T-50 is due eventually and the F/A-22 is expensive and hard to maintain compared to some of the alternitives) I, a long term fan of the Russian birds and student of super-maneuverability, bow you Americans have built the best fighter in the world. You win.
zaelu Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Sorry, dont speak German. Perhaps you could "remind me" on here in english. Here's some help: http://herzeleid.com/en/lyrics/reise_reise/amerika Sorry for OT... but you made me laugh with your post. Mizzy wrongly assumed that you see equaly the "fanbois" and you made clear for her what is what... so you wont contradict :D. Then that lamentation... "we can do this too now (super-maneuverability)." ...with the super duper gazillion generation fighter, oh boy... I need a fan :P . And your last phrase says it... So... Just so you reconsider unleashing that "stone cold killer" in all directions I remembered you that now we are all Americans. :megalol: 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A, Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least
Mizzy Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Sorry, dont speak German. Perhaps you could "remind me" on here in english. That's your problem, not the poster :) Mizzy 1
Mizzy Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 As for the Hollywood narration and music, it's amazing how many laugh at our nature and culture, and yet the sales of American videos and music overseas continues to know no bounds. Stormy, Europeans don't laugh at North Americans, at least I and all people that I know don't, because the average american is exactly the same as the average European etc. what we do laugh at is silly videos with stupid OVER THE TOP commentory ;) You appear over the top patriotic if you consider that commentory in the video nothing but OTT !! So what's that got to do with sales of US video and music merchandise? Mizzy
Rhino104 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Posted October 11, 2007 because the average american is exactly the same as the average European etc. what we do laugh at is silly videos with stupid OVER THE TOP commentory Uhh, I consider myself an average American and consider that type of narration pretty common at airshows over here. Also, remember that it was/is narrated by a member of the ground crew. They have a ton of pride in what they put into the air. Whats wrong with being proud of what you're putting in the air? Still don't see how its over the top. I guess that makes me "OTT patriotic". Damned proud to be a RESIDENT and TAXPAYER of the United States of America. Maybe when Romania or the Russians create a 5th generation fighter you can be just as proud.
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