[FIXED] Strange flgiht behavior

[EvanWeeks]

It may or may not be related, but I found that the TGP induces ever so slight amounts of yaw drag on the right. I have to trim rudder left slightly to compensate if I'm carrying the TGP. If you try to trim it out with roll, you end up slowly rolling left no matter what you do.

[Paveway333]

Many thanks, we are pretty sure the TCTS pod is the culprit, and it is used in many inf the included instant action missions.

 

Thanks

 

Don't know if this bug has been found internally yet, but as of today me and 3 others experienced this during our own mp session.

 

4 Jets, started Parking Hot with all weapons already loaded.

100% Fuel, 2x Wing Tanks, 2x mk84 and 4x Aim9L,

Persian Gulf, no wind.

Id say we all noticed this issue pretty early in flight, so low fuel state seems not to be the issue.

 

Have noticed this issue earlier playing around in the editor, was really easy to spot when you fastforward time. Double checked using rctrl+enter making sure no inputs were made from stick or rudder.

[regards]

Unless that is the bug :)

 

 

I'd say that it's not a bug.. it's a feature...

Let's not forget that the Viper is a weapons platform that happens to fly to the theatre on the double.

 

I flew several single piston GA planes over the years and I can tell you.... You really have to work hard and precise on your pedals, especially in crosswind

 

conditions.

My feelings about this EA Viper are mainly positive, despite of some functions that are still under construction.

 

Thumps up for mister Wagner and his team:thumbup:

[Kazansky222]

I got this weird problem today happen, I was on a multiplayer server, I had just fired my final a2a weapon and was clean except for pylons running at low altitude around mach 1, low on fuel about 500lbs and the plane just started to oscillate by itself, uncontrollably, until my pilot blacked out and crashed into the ground.

 

*edit and I'm pretty much certain I wasn't hit by anything as I was being guided by GCI and nothing was within weapon parameters, but I'll check the tacview when it becomes available.*

[Emmy]

When engine spools up rapidly, the interia from the engine should induce a roll left and Pretty aggressive one too.

 

Maybe this is modeled, but not tied into fan acceleration/deceleration but rather to RPM. (Constant RPM is neutral)

 

By this logic, the M2000 should also do this but I don’t recall it ever being reported.

[ebabil]

I have same problem. Even with clean wing or equal loadout, my plane rolls ot a side. of course with tgp, roll is even worse

[Swift.]

Here is a track showing a completely clean jet pulling off to the left

[Swift.]

And here is a track of a symmetrically loaded jet also pulling off to the left

[Donut]

Here is a track showing a completely clean jet pulling off to the left

 

And here is a track of a symmetrically loaded jet also pulling off to the left

 

Thanks for posting these tracks. This is the same exact behavior that I am experiencing and have posted in my tracks as well.

 

This problem still exists after today's hotfix. I would think that an issue like this would qualify for a hotfix...for me, it definitely qualifies for making the aircraft unflyable and "game breaking."

[bbrz]

Here is a track showing a completely clean jet pulling off to the left

I've just watched the track and I definitely wouldn't call that a 'pull to the left'.

 

That's exactly what I'm experiencing as well!

 

I've never seen any jet IRL or in DCS which perfectly maintains the centerline without tiny corrections.

 

With the F-16 it's usually just a tiny (right rudder) input at the beginning of the takeoff roll. Thereafter she maintains the centerline.

 

In your track I didn't notice any 'pull' to the left either. With a tiny correction right at the beginning she would track perfectly along the centerline.

 

For me a 'pull' is a continous trend to turn/yaw to the left which needs constant or repeated corrective action, which definitely isn't the case here.

 

 

edit: Noticed that the F-16 isn't perfectly aligned with the runway heading in many (if not all) cases I've tested.

 

Most of the time she's slightly offset to the right, but the nose points exactly at the centered runway end, which means she does already point slightly to the left when starting the take off roll.

Edited October 21, 2019 by bbrz

[CobaltUK]

"constant/repeated corrective action" (tried both to counter the veer) is exactly what i suffer

[Donut]

I've just watched the track and I definitely wouldn't call that a 'pull to the left'.

 

That's exactly what I'm experiencing as well!

 

I've never seen any jet IRL or in DCS which perfectly maintains the centerline without tiny corrections.

 

With the F-16 it's usually just a tiny (right rudder) input at the beginning of the takeoff roll. Thereafter she maintains the centerline.

 

In your track I didn't notice any 'pull' to the left either. With a tiny correction right at the beginning she would track perfectly along the centerline.

 

For me a 'pull' is a continous trend to turn/yaw to the left which needs constant or repeated corrective action, which definitely isn't the case here.

 

You say you don't see any pull...but then say it requires a little right rudder.

 

So what is it doing then? What is causing it to pull, yaw, drift or whatever you want to call it, to the left?

 

If this is normal behavior for the F-16, then fine. We just need some input from ED saying so and stating the cause of this behavior.

 

As for other DCS aircraft staying on centerline, the Hornet and Tomcat do. I have posted tracks in this thread showing the Hornet staying on centerline and the F-16 not...same exact conditions. No wind, clean jet, the F-16 requires constant rudder correction to stay on centerline, other aircraft require no rudder input at all. My takeoff in the Hornet and Tomcat remain on centerline with my feet flat on the floor.

[bbrz]

1. You say you don't see any pull...but then say it requires a little right rudder. So what is it doing then? What is causing it to pull, yaw, drift or whatever you want to call it, to the left?

 

2. If this is normal behavior for the F-16, then fine. No wind, clean jet, the F-16 requires constant rudder correction to stay on centerline, other aircraft require no rudder input at all.

 

1.E.g. the F-16 not being perfectly aligned with the runway causes this problem. Compressor & turbine rotation might cause this as well.

 

2. Again, I've never flown any jet IRL which doesn't require constant tiny corrections. Furthermore IMO you can't compare the F-14 and the F/A-18 due to the noticeable different gear design. Twin nosewheels, more weight on the nosewheels, wider wheel track and longer wheel base etc.

 

That said, even the DCS F-5 with its wider track and requires constant corrections.

[dotChuckles]

The yaw on take off is one thing but the constant roll to the left with certain symmetric stores loadouts is another. Don't want that to get lost in this debate.

[Donut]

The yaw on take off is one thing but the constant roll to the left with certain symmetric stores loadouts is another. Don't want that to get lost in this debate.

 

Yes, two different issues here, which may or may not be related to each other.

 

In my opinion, both are "game breaking." It is a serious problem when you have an aircraft making uncommanded movements.

 

I am hoping we hear an update from ED on both issues soon.

[bbrz]

This problem still exists after today's hotfix. I would think that an issue like this would qualify for a hotfix...for me, it definitely qualifies for making the aircraft unflyable and "game breaking."

Downloaded your left yaw takeoff trk and didn't notice anything abnormal when I took control. IMO you are simply having the wrong expectations about yaw stability.

 

Even if this would be/ is bug, I honestly don't know how that tiny amount of initial yaw is making the F-16 'unflyable' and 'game breaking'.

 

Unfortunately I can't test the left roll trk because I don't have anything but the Caucasus installed.

 

Just tested the A-10, slightly more left pull during the initial takeoff run and the F-15 which 'suffers' from a very slight right pull. I've never read any complaints about these two....

Edited October 22, 2019 by bbrz

[Donut]

Downloaded your left yaw takeoff trk and didn't notice anything abnormal when I took control. IMO you are simply having the wrong expectations about yaw stability.

 

Even if this would be/ is bug, I honestly don't know how that tiny amount of initial yaw is making the F-16 'unflyable' and 'game breaking'.

 

Unfortunately I can't test the left roll trk because I don't have anything but the Caucasus installed.

 

Thank you for checking. So you think this is normal behavior? The F-16 will always yaw to the left on the takeoff roll? If so, then my expectations and understanding may be a bit off.

 

For me, the initial yaw on takeoff is uncontrollable due to the oversensitivity I am experiencing with rudder inputs. This of course can be an issue on my end, however; I do not have any issues with rudder input on other aircraft that a bit of curve won't solve.

 

I was not expecting the F-16 to be this difficult to control on the ground. Again, I have no problems with any other aircraft and just wonder if it's me or the F-16.

[bbrz]

Do you have the F-5 and/or the A-10 for comparison?

 

As mentioned before, the initial alignment is also very important. E.g. at Sukhumi the alignment isn't perfect and I doubt that the alignment will be perfect if you do your own lineup.

 

Especially during the initial stages of the takeoff run you should always anticipate necessary corrections to maintain the centerline.

 

The NWS on the DCS F-16 is very sensitive, but since you never need the rudder during flight, you can try e.g. a 50% curve for the rudder.

Edited October 22, 2019 by bbrz

[Donut]

Do you have the F-5 and/or the A-10 for comparison?

 

As mentioned before, the initial alignment is also very important. E.g. at Sukhumi the alignment isn't perfect and I doubt that the alignment will be perfect if you do your own lineup.

 

Especially during the initial stages of the takeoff run you should always anticipate necessary corrections to maintain the centerline.

 

The NWS on the DCS F-16 is very sensitive, but since you never need the rudder during flight, you can try e.g. a 50% curve for the rudder.

 

Yes to both, as well as the F/A-18, F-14, F-86, and P-51. I have never had any problems with ground handling and the rudder...the P-51 took some practice of course but I got the hang of it. The F-16 is a mystery to me.

 

If alignment was an issue, I would experience this behavior in other aircraft, but I don't. I can start the mission on the runway or taxi to it and the results are the exact same and I see the left drift as I roll down the runway.

 

I have tried all types of curve, including 50% and nothing seems to help.

 

I really appreciate you trying to help and troubleshoot this though.

Edited October 22, 2019 by =BJM=

[bbrz]

I've switched from pedals back to twist grip rudder controls and on the F-16 I'm using a rather large 33% curve. Neither the A-10 nor the F-5 need such a big curve.

 

Just tested the F-5 and the NWS is also rather sensitive. I'm surprised that you don't have any problems with it. Are you using a curve on the F-5 rudder axis?

Edited October 22, 2019 by bbrz

[bbrz]

I can start the mission on the runway or taxi to it and the results are the exact same and I see the left drift as I roll down the runway.

So even when maintaining the centerline at higher speeds, e.g. 80kts, the F-16 starts to again drifting to the left?

 

Have you tried doing mil thrust takeoffs where you have more time for corrections, just for testing?

[Donut]

I've switched from pedals back to twist grip rudder controls and on the F-16 I'm using a rather large 33% curve. Neither the A-10 nor the F-5 need such a big curve.

 

Just tested the F-5 and the NWS is also rather sensitive. I'm surprised that you don't have any problems with it. Are you using a curve on the F-5 rudder axis?

 

I use a rudder curve of 25 on all aircraft. The F-5 is sensitive, but I have no problems.

 

So even when maintaining the centerline at higher speeds, e.g. 80kts, the F-16 starts to again drifting to the left?

 

Have you tried doing mil thrust takeoffs where you have more time for corrections, just for testing?

 

I have tried AB and Mil power with the same results. I posted tracks of each somewhere back in this thread.

Edited October 22, 2019 by =BJM=

[bbrz]

Running out of ideas.....sorry!

[Donut]

Running out of ideas.....sorry!

 

Ha! Me too! Thanks again buddy. I am really hoping Wags or someone from ED can hop in here and tell me that I am either crazy or that there is an issue/bug.

[bbrz]

That's really strange since the F-5 behaves very similar on my PC. One more item, we are only talking about clean config I assume.