ROE return fire does not seem to work

[Ducksen]

It seems as if the ROE setting of Return Fire does limit down to using fox 2 missiles.

However, they do still fire first. They fire at just below 10KM range.

If that is the correct way the Return Fire should work, please correct me.

I would think that in ROE setting of Return Fire they do a star-wars of "fly casual" until fired upon. Not just locked, but fired upon.

 

 

 

If weapons free is used they fire fox 1 and 3 missiles as one would expect.

 

 

I know you can fiddle around with restrict air to air on and off with moving zones etc. I have a tedious workaround.

[Knock-Knock]

Yea I have been experiencing the same today. As soon as I enter visual range basically, they will attack.

[Fisherman82]

Have you removed the automatic tasks? CAP or Fighter Sweep depending on what type the flight is.

 

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[Knock-Knock]

Have you removed the automatic tasks? CAP or Fighter Sweep depending on what type the flight is.

 

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In my case, yes.

[Grimes]

Hard to say, I think aircraft AI have always had a little different rules than ground groups do for instance. At least with Return fire concerned I think there was always a threshold for when the AI will decide to defend themselves based on proximity. Distance seems to be about the same between open beta and release though so I'm not sure if there was a change and if there was how recent it might've been.

 

Honestly not even sure if this has been an intentional feature for a while.

[Jagohu]

I concur - with latest beta, I've shot an Iranian F-4E in the face with an AIM9X, but wingman still doesn't engage at close proximity with Sidewinders or Gun despite the ROE being Return Fire.

[BIGNEWY]

With advance waypoint actions the order of the actions make a difference, the AI wont do an action until the previous action is completed, so getting the order of those actions is important.

 

Attach a miz or track showing the issue we can take a look.

 

thanks

[Flappie]

I've done a quick test with 2 A-10A facing each other (only Fox-2, no radar).

RU aircraft has two advanced actions:

1. CAS -a (default)
   
2. ROE
   

1. No engagement (US has no specified ROE)

 

RU= nothing but default "CAS"

They pass each other and don't engage.

 

RU= ROE ONLY DESIGNATED

They pass each other and don't engage.

 

2. Engagement (US ROE = WEAPONS FREE)

 

RU= ROE WEAPON HOLD

Only US is engaging.

 

RU= nothing but default "CAS"

They engage each other at the exact same time (I assume RETURN FIRE is default ROE).

 

RU= ROE RETURN FIRE

They engage each other at the exact same time.

 

RU= ROE WEAPONS FREE

They engage each other at the exact same time.

 

RU= ROE PRIORITY DESIGNATED

They engage each other at the exact same time.

 

RU= ROE ONLY DESIGNATED with no designated target (actually we can't ask an A-10 for an air attack)

They engage each other at the exact same time, most of the time (like 99%?).

[Flappie]

Second series with 2 F-4E facing each other (AIM-7, AIM-9 and radar). Aircraft are 8 nm from each other.

Both aircraft have "CAP -a" advanced action removed.

 

1. No engagement from US aircraft (US has no advanced action at all)

 

IRAN= ROE ONLY DESIGNATED with no designated target.

They pass each other and don't engage.

 

IRAN= ROE ONLY DESIGNATED with another aircraft as designated target.

IRAN engages designated aircraft first only when "Search and engage" action is number 1 (with AIM-7). Once target is killed, doesn't engage second aircraft.

 

IRAN= ROE PRIORITY DESIGNATED with no designated target.

Only IRAN is engaging. (AIM-7)

 

IRAN= ROE PRIORITY DESIGNATED with another aircraft as designated target.

Only IRAN is engaging. Engages designated aircraft first wheher "Search and engage" action is number 1 or 2 (AIM-7).

 

2. Engagement from US aircraft (US ROE = WEAPONS FREE)

 

IRAN= ROE WEAPON HOLD

Only US is engaging.

 

IRAN=No ROE.

US engages first with AIM-7. IRAN engages with AIM-9 only (probably doesn't fire AIM-7 because he needs to evade right away).

From a longer range (18 nm), IRAN engages with a delay, with AIM-7.

 

IRAN = ROE RETURN FIRE

US engages first with AIM-7. IRAN engages with AIM-9 only (probably doesn't fire AIM-7 because he needs to evade right away).

From a longer range (18 nm), IRAN engages with a delay, with AIM-7.

 

IRAN= ROE WEAPONS FREE

They engage each other at the exact same time, both with AIM-7 this time, despite the short range (8 nm).

 

IRAN= ROE PRIORITY DESIGNATED with no designated target.

They engage each other at the exact same time, both with AIM-7 this time, despite the short range (8 nm).

 

IRAN= ROE PRIORITY DESIGNATED with another aircraft as designated target.

IRAN engages designated aircraft first only when "Search and engage" action is number 1 (with AIM-7).

 

IRAN= ROE ONLY DESIGNATED with another aircraft as designated target.

IRAN engages designated aircraft first only when "Search and engage" action is number 1 (with AIM-7). Engages undesignated aircraft as soon as designated target is dead (sometimes with AIM-7).

 

I agree with OP about Fox-2 only in RETURN FIRE mode, but it applies only in short range (about 8 nm).

In longer range (about 18 nm), AI engages with Fox-1.

 

In RETURN FIRE, F4E always shoots second, never first.

A-10A shoots at the same time, however. Maybe this is CAS aircraft specific.

F4E_return_fire_8nm.trk

F4E_only_designated_8nm.trk

Edited October 30, 2020 by Flappie

[Pikey]

With two F-4, with AIM7 and AIM9M head to head 20nm both with CAP task primary and RETURN FIRE ONLY as second task in adv wp actions, neither of them shoot (as expected)

 

As soon as I removed the return fire from one of them, it shot and the other responded.

 

Seems to work as expected?

[Flappie]

I agree. The only thing that seems problematic to me is the ONLY DESIGNATED action which implies RETURN FIRE, when I thought it would not.