Ghost_Dragon03 Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 This is what I ment by my statement. People forget about what is happening in RL and in terms of ROEs and what is possible in game. Given fact is, which every Kiowa Warrior pilot will concur to is, that the M4 was ment for personal protection, not for direct combat actions from the helicopter. I sometimes scratch my head why people think such a M4 would be in any way accurate when you fire it out of the door in a move sideways. I have fired multiple rifle rounds in my life and I know that there is so far not a single game that is relaistic in terms of the aim, recoil control, reaim and so on. Everybody who has fired rifles in his life will oknow, that a shot from a moving, rocking vehicle like a helicopter is basically, in first place a waste of ammunition, when you have way more accurate weapons you can use. :clap_2::thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Website : http://www.2nd-ffs.org
enigma6584 Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 I sometimes scratch my head why people think such a M4 would be in any way accurate when you fire it out of the door in a move sideways. I have fired multiple rifle rounds in my life and I know that there is so far not a single game that is relaistic in terms of the aim, recoil control, reaim and so on. Everybody who has fired rifles in his life will oknow, that a shot from a moving, rocking vehicle like a helicopter is basically, in first place a waste of ammunition, when you have way more accurate weapons you can use. Spot on. I purchase your module and other DCS modules in order to fly aircraft, not shoot infantry arms. I have other simulations/games which do that better.
peeter Posted April 26, 2020 Posted April 26, 2020 Hey, I'm wondering what left before the release ? I guess the some 3D, systems (Moving Map) and the damage model. But you said you want to release the module almost finish so don't worry we will wait ;)
QuiGon Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) Interesting information. I have not heard of a single incident yet in the OH58d Kiowa Warrior community, where the flight of 2 Kiowas could not employ 50cal or heavier ordance. I actually heard of stories where wodden doors were literally kicked in with a 50cal from less then 100 yards. So, as far I see it, there was never an issue with the weapons employment, and if there needed they did fly a turn around and hammered the target then or nb 2 came in and rained hell on the "bad" guys. Would be interesting to know of that incident you describe., maybe one of the guys has heard about stuff like that. will see Here, a real life Kiowa instructor pilot (who you Polychop guys probably know, as he seems to be one of your testers/SMEs) says, that the M4s were actually used regularly and not just for self protection but also to escalate the use of force if 50cal or rockets were not appropriate: So like I said, there were situations were the M4 was the weapon of choice, because the bigger guns were not a good option. ;) Edited May 23, 2020 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
PickleMonster Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 "Escalation of force" doesn't exist in DCS though. And DCS doesn't really support FPS style weapons employment either. Have you tried door gunnery? it's pretty unintuitive. Polychop could certainly have a crack at implementing this, but due to the limitations of DCS, it would look janky. And that's development hours that could be going elsewhere. Even if it was implemented, how many of us would use it beyond a couple of test runs?
ngreenaway Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 I certainly hope no time is wasted on making the M4 anything but "window dressing" i dont see a way to implement it well within the game, and i dont want to drop my flight stick&pick up an analog controller to play a flight sim like an FPS additionally, ground target AI isnt really programmed to react to escalation of force [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE
Stratos Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) No M4, no Kiowa for me, seems that some guys like to have less features in sake a pretended realism, what a funny way of thinking! Wondering how hard would be to add a M4 just as a controllable gunner? Mi-8 have them, the Huey have them, why not the Kiowa with an M-4? I like to fly low intensity COIN scenarios, that would be great to have, and maybe in the future we could have a better reacting infantry, and this will come handy. Edited May 25, 2020 by Stratos I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
WinterH Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 I'd call M-4 to be the pretend realism in this case, as it'd be fairly pointless in DCS. May be as additional feature waaaaaaay down the line after all things ironed out. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
Stratos Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 I'd call M-4 to be the pretend realism in this case, as it'd be fairly pointless in DCS. May be as additional feature waaaaaaay down the line after all things ironed out. Some time ago I asked on the Mi-24 post on the russian forums about better infantry modelling, I got an answer about planned infantry that would take cover once you're close enough. Why not having a M4 for such situations then? I'm requesting to ADD a feature, any user not planning to use it don't have to, but would be great to have it there for the guys like me that want to use it in combat. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
QuiGon Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 "Escalation of force" doesn't exist in DCS though. And DCS doesn't really support FPS style weapons employment either. Have you tried door gunnery? it's pretty unintuitive. Polychop could certainly have a crack at implementing this, but due to the limitations of DCS, it would look janky. And that's development hours that could be going elsewhere. Even if it was implemented, how many of us would use it beyond a couple of test runs? I was just talking about Real Life usage of the M4 there. ;) I never asked Polychop to implement M4 functionality for DCS as it indee would be of no use there as you said and I agree with that. I was just happy to see that the M4s are included in the 3D model of the chopper as it is a bit of a "signature weapon" of the Kiowa. That's all :) Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Catweedle Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 Having options makes many people happy: if you don't want to use an M4 in DCS, don't use it -- and vice versa. Enforcing a certain play style, however, will only make some people happy.
Stratos Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 Having options makes many people happy: if you don't want to use an M4 in DCS, don't use it -- and vice versa. Enforcing a certain play style, however, will only make some people happy. That's my point, If one have the option he can choose to use it or not to use it, but If the option is not there, you will not be able to use it, even If you want to. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Any official update for this feature request please? I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
QuiGon Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Any official update for this feature request please? What feature request? :huh: This thread is about a cool Kiowa video that the OP posted. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 What feature request? :huh: This thread is about a cool Kiowa video that the OP posted. The hability to shoot a M4 carbine from the Kiowa cockpit. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
QuiGon Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 The hability to shoot a M4 carbine from the Kiowa cockpit. Where was this requested? That's not what this thread is about. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Not the opening post, but was discussed later. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
QuiGon Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Not the opening post, but was discussed later. It was discussed how M4s are used on the Kiowa IRL and if it makes sense to implement them in DCS. I don't recall anyone having actually requested usable M4s for the DCS Kiowa though. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy: Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please? Edited July 6, 2020 by Stratos I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
kotor633 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy: Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please? And what should that bring us in a FluSi? What do you expect from it? I say Polychop has more important things to do ... ************************************** DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really! **************************************
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 And what should that bring us in a FluSi? What do you expect from it? I say Polychop has more important things to do ... Will not enter in a rivet counter argument, If you don't like please move on. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
ngreenaway Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 I hope the m4 is just "window dressing" I don't see a way or reason to make the thing useful [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE
QuiGon Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy: Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please? Alright then, now this request is just missing a proper thread ;) FluSi I'm not sure if non-German speakers will understand what that means :music_whistling: Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Stratos Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Is curious how some people like to have simulated a electric break in the cockpit, but don't find a reason to have a feature that was used in combat. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
PickleMonster Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 This has already been nixed by PolyChop. They're not developing M4 functionality becuase it's a lot of work for something that's going to be fairly janky in implementation and pretty much won't be used.
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