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Posted
This is what I ment by my statement.

People forget about what is happening in RL and in terms of ROEs and what is possible in game.

 

Given fact is, which every Kiowa Warrior pilot will concur to is, that the M4 was ment for personal protection, not for direct combat actions from the helicopter.

 

I sometimes scratch my head why people think such a M4 would be in any way accurate when you fire it out of the door in a move sideways. I have fired multiple rifle rounds in my life and I know that there is so far not a single game that is relaistic in terms of the aim, recoil control, reaim and so on. Everybody who has fired rifles in his life will oknow, that a shot from a moving, rocking vehicle like a helicopter is basically, in first place a waste of ammunition, when you have way more accurate weapons you can use.

 

:clap_2::thumbup:

Posted

 

I sometimes scratch my head why people think such a M4 would be in any way accurate when you fire it out of the door in a move sideways. I have fired multiple rifle rounds in my life and I know that there is so far not a single game that is relaistic in terms of the aim, recoil control, reaim and so on. Everybody who has fired rifles in his life will oknow, that a shot from a moving, rocking vehicle like a helicopter is basically, in first place a waste of ammunition, when you have way more accurate weapons you can use.

 

Spot on. I purchase your module and other DCS modules in order to fly aircraft, not shoot infantry arms. I have other simulations/games which do that better.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Hey, I'm wondering what left before the release ?

I guess the some 3D, systems (Moving Map) and the damage model.

 

But you said you want to release the module almost finish so don't worry we will wait ;)

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
Interesting information. I have not heard of a single incident yet in the OH58d Kiowa Warrior community, where the flight of 2 Kiowas could not employ 50cal or heavier ordance. I actually heard of stories where wodden doors were literally kicked in with a 50cal from less then 100 yards. So, as far I see it, there was never an issue with the weapons employment, and if there needed they did fly a turn around and hammered the target then or nb 2 came in and rained hell on the "bad" guys.

Would be interesting to know of that incident you describe., maybe one of the guys has heard about stuff like that. will see

Here, a real life Kiowa instructor pilot (who you Polychop guys probably know, as he seems to be one of your testers/SMEs) says, that the M4s were actually used regularly and not just for self protection but also to escalate the use of force if 50cal or rockets were not appropriate:

So like I said, there were situations were the M4 was the weapon of choice, because the bigger guns were not a good option. ;)

Edited by QuiGon

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Posted

"Escalation of force" doesn't exist in DCS though. And DCS doesn't really support FPS style weapons employment either. Have you tried door gunnery? it's pretty unintuitive.

 

 

Polychop could certainly have a crack at implementing this, but due to the limitations of DCS, it would look janky. And that's development hours that could be going elsewhere. Even if it was implemented, how many of us would use it beyond a couple of test runs?

Posted

I certainly hope no time is wasted on making the M4 anything but "window dressing"

 

i dont see a way to implement it well within the game, and i dont want to drop my flight stick&pick up an analog controller to play a flight sim like an FPS

 

additionally, ground target AI isnt really programmed to react to escalation of force

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Posted (edited)

No M4, no Kiowa for me, seems that some guys like to have less features in sake a pretended realism, what a funny way of thinking!

 

Wondering how hard would be to add a M4 just as a controllable gunner? Mi-8 have them, the Huey have them, why not the Kiowa with an M-4? I like to fly low intensity COIN scenarios, that would be great to have, and maybe in the future we could have a better reacting infantry, and this will come handy.

Edited by Stratos

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted

I'd call M-4 to be the pretend realism in this case, as it'd be fairly pointless in DCS. May be as additional feature waaaaaaay down the line after all things ironed out.

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Posted
I'd call M-4 to be the pretend realism in this case, as it'd be fairly pointless in DCS. May be as additional feature waaaaaaay down the line after all things ironed out.

 

Some time ago I asked on the Mi-24 post on the russian forums about better infantry modelling, I got an answer about planned infantry that would take cover once you're close enough. Why not having a M4 for such situations then? I'm requesting to ADD a feature, any user not planning to use it don't have to, but would be great to have it there for the guys like me that want to use it in combat.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted
"Escalation of force" doesn't exist in DCS though. And DCS doesn't really support FPS style weapons employment either. Have you tried door gunnery? it's pretty unintuitive.

 

 

Polychop could certainly have a crack at implementing this, but due to the limitations of DCS, it would look janky. And that's development hours that could be going elsewhere. Even if it was implemented, how many of us would use it beyond a couple of test runs?

I was just talking about Real Life usage of the M4 there. ;)

I never asked Polychop to implement M4 functionality for DCS as it indee would be of no use there as you said and I agree with that. I was just happy to see that the M4s are included in the 3D model of the chopper as it is a bit of a "signature weapon" of the Kiowa. That's all :)

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Posted

Having options makes many people happy: if you don't want to use an M4 in DCS, don't use it -- and vice versa. Enforcing a certain play style, however, will only make some people happy.

Posted
Having options makes many people happy: if you don't want to use an M4 in DCS, don't use it -- and vice versa. Enforcing a certain play style, however, will only make some people happy.

 

That's my point, If one have the option he can choose to use it or not to use it, but If the option is not there, you will not be able to use it, even If you want to.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

  • 1 month later...
Posted
Any official update for this feature request please?

What feature request? :huh:

This thread is about a cool Kiowa video that the OP posted.

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Posted
What feature request? :huh:

This thread is about a cool Kiowa video that the OP posted.

 

The hability to shoot a M4 carbine from the Kiowa cockpit.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted
The hability to shoot a M4 carbine from the Kiowa cockpit.

Where was this requested? That's not what this thread is about.

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Posted
Not the opening post, but was discussed later.

It was discussed how M4s are used on the Kiowa IRL and if it makes sense to implement them in DCS.

I don't recall anyone having actually requested usable M4s for the DCS Kiowa though.

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Posted (edited)

If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy:

 

Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please?

 

xPiaCkw.jpg

Edited by Stratos

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted
If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy:

 

Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please?

 

xPiaCkw.jpg

 

And what should that bring us in a FluSi? What do you expect from it? I say Polychop has more important things to do ...

**************************************

DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really!

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Posted
And what should that bring us in a FluSi? What do you expect from it? I say Polychop has more important things to do ...

 

Will not enter in a rivet counter argument, If you don't like please move on.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted

I hope the m4 is just "window dressing"

 

I don't see a way or reason to make the thing useful

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Posted
If that's not enough, let me do it Officialy:

 

Can we get a crewable M4 carbine while flying from the cockpit of the Oh-58 please?

Alright then, now this request is just missing a proper thread ;)

 

FluSi

I'm not sure if non-German speakers will understand what that means :music_whistling:

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Posted

Is curious how some people like to have simulated a electric break in the cockpit, but don't find a reason to have a feature that was used in combat.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Posted

This has already been nixed by PolyChop. They're not developing M4 functionality becuase it's a lot of work for something that's going to be fairly janky in implementation and pretty much won't be used.

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