Wish For F/A 35B

[AeriaGloria]

AeriaGloria, considering you were citing information spoken about during the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) competition held in India to choose a medium role aircraft for the Indian Air Force, you are referring to India planning their next major acquisition. The conversation being discussed prior to you making sure I knew what I was talking about was simple, the cost of what one F-35 was rolling off the line at Lockheed. If I wanted to flaunt my knowledge over India's decision to invest in their own indigenous programs to save money and bash the worlds best 5th Gen fighter, I would have gladly done that. But this is a professional forum where I do not tend to throw stones. And I am very aware of the F-21. It is an excellent plane and will serve India well.

 

Sorry You didn’t like me bringing up MMRCA, I just thought it was an interesting comparison about the gold plated solution that is the Eurofighter, since Kev mentioned the F-35 even for FMS partners is still cheaper then Eurofighter. Sorry you thought I was throwing a stone at you, maybe I could’ve worded it differently, but the cost difference for top tier vs FMS is an important distinction to make if we are going to talk about it’s acquisition cost. Not trying to throw a stone, just add some info to the forum pool, I wish it was as simple as $80 million for every plane but it’s not

Edited March 13, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[Devil 505]

Sorry You didn’t like me bringing up MMRCA, I just thought it was an interesting comparison about the gold plated solution that is the Eurofighter, since Kev mentioned the F-35 even for FMS partners is still cheaper then Eurofighter. Sorry you thought I was throwing a stone at you, maybe I could’ve worded it differently, but the cost difference for top tier vs FMS is an important distinction to make if we are going to talk about it’s acquisition cost. Not trying to throw a stone, just add some info to the forum pool, I wish it was as simple as $80 million for every plane but it’s not

 

All good my friend. Silly thing to be discussing on this forum anyways. All the above aircraft I love and have great respect for. I was the one who probably took it a little to serious. Apologies. I will probably bail on this forum as it really has no bearing on what we really like anyways, and that is the current modules and confirmed future ones. I welcome whatever ED and the Third Party Devs bring to the table. See you in the Virtual Skies Aeria!

[AeriaGloria]

No worries it’s a forum, things get lost over text:) I need to take a break from the forum also. “Hi therapist person I’m really addicted to this website.”

“Facebook? Twitter?”

“It’s way worse then that, it has to do with.... virtual airplanes”

 

I imagine my conversation going like that:)

 

 

 

To bring this back to F-35, I’m sure it won’t be here for many decades, but I wonder what bearing things being coded in C++ has on module development? I’m not a programmer so wouldn’t know, but I would assume it would help if your are integrating anything official in the software. For example the JF-17 is coded in C++, I don’t know if Deka drew all their MFD pages themselves or integrated the actual pages, becuase they look nearly pixel perfect to the real one.

 

Maybe it’ll be like the F-5E and we would get an aggressor first, one of the 160 that aren’t making it to active service!

 

Thing is, it’ll probably be needed as an AI asset more then anything eventually

[TotenDead]

However considering this isnt a online arcade avaiation mmo,, exact forced balance is not a prerequisite for a study sim.

 

Game of any genre should be balanced or will see its dawn prematurely. Fortunantely for DCS, it's not limited to offline and, as the matter of fact, the majority of players is interested in online. Noone is asking for absolute balance, only for aircraft from the same era on both sides

Edited March 14, 2020 by TotenDead

[razo+r]

...as the matter of fact, the majority of players is interested in online. ...

 

You mean offline, right?

[TotenDead]

You mean offline, right?

 

Mmm, nope. Flying in a fighter against AI planes? Sounds like one hell of a simulation of a real life

[razo+r]

Mmm, nope. Flying in a fighter against AI planes? Sounds like one hell of a simulation of a real life

 

Then how come more people fly offline if according to you the majority fancies online play?

[VpR81]

Game of any genre should be balanced or will see its dawn prematurely. Fortunantely for DCS, it's not limited to offline and, as the matter of fact, the majority of players is interested in online. Noone is asking for absolute balance, only for aircraft from the same era on both sides

 

Most of the online servers are empty 24/7 and only a few are populated. My server browser shows round about 500 servers and 700-1000 players worldwide. Including one Admin bot on each server, so there are roughly about 300-500 real players online. I highly doubt that this is the majority of DCS customers. And for aircrafts from the same era on both sides... red has the JF-17 wich is very versatile and pretty much equal to the F-16/F-18 (well, as long as the 120C is still underpowered compared to it´s real life performance), so what´s the point?

[Sierra99]

The data on the Mig is inaccurate. I could tell you the truth about the platform but then I would have to kill you. Needless to say, two out of the three US military branches are combat operational and already highly successful on their last several deployments. As far as the cost goes, it is no secret now we have the F-35 down to around $80 mil. You can google that one and see it has been posted everywhere. It was big news when it happened. More countries want a piece of the Cheddar now that we are competing with older 4th gen aircraft price wise. Simple mistake, verify the data you post before posting it.

 

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, I know nothing. Socrates"

 

Of course...for 80 million we can also buy F-15Xs which are actually air superiority aircraft with a proven combat record.

[TotenDead]

Most of the online servers are empty 24/7 and only a few are populated. My server browser shows round about 500 servers and 700-1000 players worldwide.

 

Why don't you think that there are even less players offline?

 

"as long as the 120C is still underpowered compared to it´s real life performance"

Lol

[Mars Exulte]

Why don't you think that there are even less players offline?

 

"as long as the 120C is still underpowered compared to it´s real life performance"

Lol

 

Because we're all here? If there were even less offline, then this clearly wouldn't be a sustainable business. It's not like it's hard math. Big company (round about 200 @ ED + 3rd parties) + ''few hundred players online'' = they are OBVIOUSLY not the primary source of income. I mean really, it's as straightforward as it gets.

[Kev2go]

Of course...for 80 million we can also buy F-15Xs which are actually air superiority aircraft with a proven combat record.

 

 

 

F35 is a next generation multirole platform . F22 already exists as a 5th gen stealth air superiority fighter.

 

 

F15X is an overhaul in avionics, relative to the current eagles, but til never be stealth gen 5 aircraft with low observable RCS. Perhaps the USAF might just buy F15EX's as to compliment the USAF fleet and repalce some older Strike Eagles, but itl never be an F35 contender either in sales or actual role. Maybe Boeing will have better luck marketing a spit and polished 40 year old aircraft via FMS to nations that are restricted from the F35 for political reasons.

 

this was the same argument that was probably made every time new technology came about, Why replace X with Y when Y is 30 or 40 years old and combat proven? Because technology changes and if you fall behind, you will suffer against an adversary that has progressed further.

 

If this was the logic actually put into application then there would never be progress.

 

Stealth isn't just nice to have, but it is a necessity for any future conventional conflict to have an advantage ( at least for now when stealth aircraft aren't so common yet)

 

IF Stealth wasn't important, other nations that are regarded as adversaries to the USA wouldn't be building their own gen 5 stealth fighters.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Kev2go

[VpR81]

Why don't you think that there are even less players offline?

 

"as long as the 120C is still underpowered compared to it´s real life performance"

Lol

 

1. Because DCS has close to 10.000 reviews yet alone on Steam. So if you could do the math...

 

2. Most sources say the SD-10/PL-12 having a max range of roughly 45nm, the 120B about the same and the 120C, depending on source about 55-65nm. So what?

 

Truth hurts, huh? Sorry, didn´t want to burst your bubble.

Edited March 15, 2020 by VpR81

[TotenDead]

Because we're all here? If there were even less offline, then this clearly wouldn't be a sustainable business. It's not like it's hard math. Big company (round about 200 @ ED + 3rd parties) + ''few hundred players online'' = they are OBVIOUSLY not the primary source of income. I mean really, it's as straightforward as it gets.

 

Eh, well, there're more than a few hundred players online. You might be confused by number of people playing at the moment you check online, but those people aren't playing 24/7, they get constantly replaced by other players. So, if 1000 players get fully replaced by new ones every 2 hours that would make like 12000 players per day. And of course not everyone flies DCS every day.

[TotenDead]

1. Because DCS has close to 10.000 reviews yet alone on Steam. So if you could do the math...

 

2. Most sources say the SD-10/PL-12 having a max range of roughly 45nm, the 120B about the same and the 120C, depending on source about 55-65nm. So what?

 

1. That is hardly a proof of anything. DCS has been around for years

 

2. Could you please provide me with flight characteristics graphics of both AIM-120C and PL-10?

[AeriaGloria]

You wont find fly out charts for PL-12/SD-10. US Military probably has the same issue trying to estimate its performance. It’s evolution the PL-15 is one of the primary reasons there is all that recent new air to air missile stuff competing around like CUDA and what not, trying to get something that can fit in F-35.

Edited March 15, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[TotenDead]

You wont find fly out charts for PL-12/SD-10

 

That's my point

[AeriaGloria]

It’s not special,I’m not 100% but I haven’t seen any fly out charts for AIM-120C5-7 either, or for Meteor, or for AIM-120D or Mica, R-77-1. That’s just how it is for modern missiles

Edited March 15, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[Mars Exulte]

Eh, well, there're more than a few hundred players online. You might be confused by number of people playing at the moment you check online, but those people aren't playing 24/7, they get constantly replaced by other players. So, if 1000 players get fully replaced by new ones every 2 hours that would make like 12000 players per day. And of course not everyone flies DCS every day.

 

Of course there's more than a few hundred, and your numbers are reasonable as an extrapolation which I would agree with. The point remains the same however, 10,000 is ALSO not enough to support the game. Even 100,000 over its lifespan is not enough to support.the game, as every player has not purchased every module. The owner recently mentioned how many thousands of copies of A-10C are sold each year... but we do not see tens of thousands of people online flying A-10s, so logically a great majority of these.people aren't there at all.

 

But most importantly of all... ED themselves have said only a few percent play online and the bulk of the populace is playing singleplayer. It may not please you, but it's not debatable. The servers are sparsely populated yet the game exists, so it's pretty clear most of the people aren't there.