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Posted

Cold start, 11,000lbs+ of fuel. Setting bingo to any value greater than 6000lbs--for example 6100lbs--results in the FUEL warning appearing.

 

I reproduced this four or five times today. I will make a short track tomorrow and see if it also happens on hot starts.

Posted
Not a bug, bingo fuel computation is based off of fuselage fuel only.

 

With full internal and external fuel, fuselage fuel should be 7700lbs, therefore setting bingo between 6100~6900 should not cause the warning.

Posted
Not a bug, bingo fuel computation is based off of fuselage fuel only.

 

So what the needles show when in 'norm' pos?

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Posted
With full internal and external fuel, fuselage fuel should be 7700lbs, therefore setting bingo between 6100~6900 should not cause the warning.

Does fuselage fuel mean total internal i.e.

Left internal wing

Right internal wing

F-1 fuselage

F-2 fuselage

A-1 fuselage

Aft reservoir

Fwd reservoir?

 

Or does it mean just the F-1, F-2, A-1 tanks?

Or does it mean all internal except the internal wing tanks?

 

Nominal F-16C fuel when filled JP-8 is 7160+-300 lbs. 7700 lbs. total internal I don't think is possible.

 

Seems strange to not count wing internal fuel as part of the bingo calculation. Feeding from the internal wing is not especially unreliable. I mean I guess if you really wanted to have a high bingo you could set the fuel qty sel knob out of norm position in which case the bingo warning is based only off the totalizer.

Posted
Does fuselage fuel mean total internal i.e.

Left internal wing

Right internal wing

F-1 fuselage

F-2 fuselage

A-1 fuselage

Aft reservoir

Fwd reservoir?

 

Or does it mean just the F-1, F-2, A-1 tanks?

Or does it mean all internal except the internal wing tanks?

 

Nominal F-16C fuel when filled JP-8 is 7160+-300 lbs. 7700 lbs. total internal I don't think is possible.

 

Seems strange to not count wing internal fuel as part of the bingo calculation. Feeding from the internal wing is not especially unreliable. I mean I guess if you really wanted to have a high bingo you could set the fuel qty sel knob out of norm position in which case the bingo warning is based only off the totalizer.

 

The totalizer (digits) show the total fuel (internal + external). The pointer will depend on your fuel knob:

 

In NORM pointers show fuselage fuel only (no internal or external wing tanks):

 

- AL pointer shows total of A1 tank and Aft reservoir tank

- FR pointer shows total of F1, F2 and FWD reservoir

Posted

The bingo computation is based on the lesser of fuselage fuel weight or total fuel weight regardless of the FUEL QTY SEL knob position. That is, bingo fuel warning will be triggered when either fuselage fuel or total fuel decreases below the bingo fuel value.

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Posted
The bingo computation is based on the lesser of fuselage fuel weight or total fuel weight regardless of the FUEL QTY SEL knob position. That is, bingo fuel warning will be triggered when either fuselage fuel or total fuel decreases below the bingo fuel value.

 

Not true: When the switch is out of NORM the Bingo fuel is triggered when total fuel decreases below the set value.

 

When the switch is in NORM it is the fuselage fuel which triggers the Bingo fuel warning at set value.

  • ED Team
Posted

Thank you all for reports! There is no error.

 

When FUEL QTY SEL knob is in NORM position, BINGO is based on internal fuselage or total fuel, which is lower. Internal fuselage is always lower than 6100, approximately it equals 6070lbs.

When FUEL QTY SEL knob is out of NORM position, BINGO is based on total fuel or 6667 lbs, which is lower.

 

If you have different information, please, be so kind to provide it to us!

  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)

How do you get 6667lbs?

With NATO F-34 ( JP-8 ) I see 6060lbs without internal wingtanks and 7160 with internal wingtanks in the -1.

 

So without the wingtanks setting the Bingo to 6100+ would trigger the caution. Based on your numbers it would be wrong.

Or do I just misinterpret your post?

Edited by MadCat1381
Posted
Not true: When the switch is out of NORM the Bingo fuel is triggered when total fuel decreases below the set value.

 

When the switch is in NORM it is the fuselage fuel which triggers the Bingo fuel warning at set value.

 

So you’re saying the -1 is wrong?

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Posted

I'm trying to wrap my head around why General Dynamics/Boeing would set it up like this.

 

For one, total fuel will always be equal to or greater than internal fuel, so the "whichever is less" qualifier in the manuals is a waste of words.

 

Secondly, this makes it impossible to set a calculated BINGO above 6000lbs. For longer missions I like to program 7000~8000lbs for JOKER so I have room to reassess my time on station or rapidly egress from a threat before BINGO and RTB.

 

This design feature seems quite illogical.

Posted

Oops, General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin. I thought Boeing bought out the F-16 since they're basically a monopoly now.

 

But......the only answer to my question is a pedantic non-issue that's totally besides the point???

Posted

Out of NORM, and BINGO is based on total fuel or 6667 lbs, which is lower. So I still can't go higher than 6667lbs, and also doesn't answer my question...

  • ED Team
Posted
Or do I just misinterpret your post?

 

Yes, there is slight misunderstanding. BINGO depends on FUEL QTY SEL knob position.

 

Bingo calculation takes into account two values - fuselage and total fuel. If the selector is in NORM, BINGO is set if any value is less than bingo value. As fuselage fuel can't be higher than 6070 lbs approximately, BINGO of 6100 will always be triggered.

 

If the selector is in another position, fuselage fuel is set to 6667, according to available information. But the conditions for BINGO remain the same - if any value less than bingo value. So, if BINGO is set to values higher than 6667, it will always be triggered.

 

I hope, this explanation helps a little!

  • Thanks 1
Posted

Might be confusing or some may not like it but it is accurate and matches this specific version of the F-16 circa 2007. So thanks ED.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Posted
Might be confusing or some may not like it but it is accurate and matches this specific version of the F-16 circa 2007. So thanks ED.

 

Was there any rationale behind this design, or was it just some bonehead engineer thing done without bothering to think how it would effect mission planning?

Posted

It alerts the pilot to the situation where there is a feed problem and the wings aren't feeding into the fuselage tanks. The wing internals can have fuel transfer less than engine demand. It's also the summation variable used in trapped fuel warning.

 

If the reservoir tanks (2x430 lbs.) are or are not included in the summation of "fuselage fuel" that makes the difference between 5775 or 4915 lbs. as maximum fuselage fuel.

 

There is also the "out of norm" knob question. When the knob is out of norm is the bingo value based solely on totalizer with fuselage value being ignored (in which case 10,000 lbs. would be a valid bingo if totalizer >10,000) or does fuselage report a dummy "full" value which would still trip bingo if bingo 10,000 & totalizer >10,000?

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