Nealius Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 Cold start, 11,000lbs+ of fuel. Setting bingo to any value greater than 6000lbs--for example 6100lbs--results in the FUEL warning appearing. I reproduced this four or five times today. I will make a short track tomorrow and see if it also happens on hot starts.
Svend_Dellepude Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 I was about to report this as well. +1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Sharpe_95 Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 I have this. I noticed it at 7200 but agree it's there. +1
afbl Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Not a bug, bingo fuel computation is based off of fuselage fuel only.
Nealius Posted April 9, 2020 Author Posted April 9, 2020 Not a bug, bingo fuel computation is based off of fuselage fuel only. With full internal and external fuel, fuselage fuel should be 7700lbs, therefore setting bingo between 6100~6900 should not cause the warning.
Svend_Dellepude Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Not a bug, bingo fuel computation is based off of fuselage fuel only. So what the needles show when in 'norm' pos? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Frederf Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 With full internal and external fuel, fuselage fuel should be 7700lbs, therefore setting bingo between 6100~6900 should not cause the warning. Does fuselage fuel mean total internal i.e. Left internal wing Right internal wing F-1 fuselage F-2 fuselage A-1 fuselage Aft reservoir Fwd reservoir? Or does it mean just the F-1, F-2, A-1 tanks? Or does it mean all internal except the internal wing tanks? Nominal F-16C fuel when filled JP-8 is 7160+-300 lbs. 7700 lbs. total internal I don't think is possible. Seems strange to not count wing internal fuel as part of the bingo calculation. Feeding from the internal wing is not especially unreliable. I mean I guess if you really wanted to have a high bingo you could set the fuel qty sel knob out of norm position in which case the bingo warning is based only off the totalizer.
Bouli306 Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 Does fuselage fuel mean total internal i.e. Left internal wing Right internal wing F-1 fuselage F-2 fuselage A-1 fuselage Aft reservoir Fwd reservoir? Or does it mean just the F-1, F-2, A-1 tanks? Or does it mean all internal except the internal wing tanks? Nominal F-16C fuel when filled JP-8 is 7160+-300 lbs. 7700 lbs. total internal I don't think is possible. Seems strange to not count wing internal fuel as part of the bingo calculation. Feeding from the internal wing is not especially unreliable. I mean I guess if you really wanted to have a high bingo you could set the fuel qty sel knob out of norm position in which case the bingo warning is based only off the totalizer. The totalizer (digits) show the total fuel (internal + external). The pointer will depend on your fuel knob: In NORM pointers show fuselage fuel only (no internal or external wing tanks): - AL pointer shows total of A1 tank and Aft reservoir tank - FR pointer shows total of F1, F2 and FWD reservoir
=Panther= Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 The bingo computation is based on the lesser of fuselage fuel weight or total fuel weight regardless of the FUEL QTY SEL knob position. That is, bingo fuel warning will be triggered when either fuselage fuel or total fuel decreases below the bingo fuel value. Twitch Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster Z390 Aorus Xtreme, i9 9900k, G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB, 1080ti 11GB, Obutto R3Volution, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, TPR, Cougar MFDs, FSSB R3L, JetSeat, Oculus Rift S, Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC, F/A-18C UFC, Tek Creations F-16 ICP
Bouli306 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 The bingo computation is based on the lesser of fuselage fuel weight or total fuel weight regardless of the FUEL QTY SEL knob position. That is, bingo fuel warning will be triggered when either fuselage fuel or total fuel decreases below the bingo fuel value. Not true: When the switch is out of NORM the Bingo fuel is triggered when total fuel decreases below the set value. When the switch is in NORM it is the fuselage fuel which triggers the Bingo fuel warning at set value.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 10, 2020 ED Team Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) Reported for review by the team, thanks Edited April 10, 2020 by BIGNEWY Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
ED Team cofcorpse Posted April 10, 2020 ED Team Posted April 10, 2020 Thank you all for reports! There is no error. When FUEL QTY SEL knob is in NORM position, BINGO is based on internal fuselage or total fuel, which is lower. Internal fuselage is always lower than 6100, approximately it equals 6070lbs. When FUEL QTY SEL knob is out of NORM position, BINGO is based on total fuel or 6667 lbs, which is lower. If you have different information, please, be so kind to provide it to us! 1
MadCat1381 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) How do you get 6667lbs? With NATO F-34 ( JP-8 ) I see 6060lbs without internal wingtanks and 7160 with internal wingtanks in the -1. So without the wingtanks setting the Bingo to 6100+ would trigger the caution. Based on your numbers it would be wrong. Or do I just misinterpret your post? Edited April 10, 2020 by MadCat1381
=Panther= Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Not true: When the switch is out of NORM the Bingo fuel is triggered when total fuel decreases below the set value. When the switch is in NORM it is the fuselage fuel which triggers the Bingo fuel warning at set value. So you’re saying the -1 is wrong? Twitch Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster Z390 Aorus Xtreme, i9 9900k, G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB, 1080ti 11GB, Obutto R3Volution, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, TPR, Cougar MFDs, FSSB R3L, JetSeat, Oculus Rift S, Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC, F/A-18C UFC, Tek Creations F-16 ICP
Nealius Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 I'm trying to wrap my head around why General Dynamics/Boeing would set it up like this. For one, total fuel will always be equal to or greater than internal fuel, so the "whichever is less" qualifier in the manuals is a waste of words. Secondly, this makes it impossible to set a calculated BINGO above 6000lbs. For longer missions I like to program 7000~8000lbs for JOKER so I have room to reassess my time on station or rapidly egress from a threat before BINGO and RTB. This design feature seems quite illogical.
Svend_Dellepude Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 What does Boeing have to do with it? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Nealius Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 Oops, General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin. I thought Boeing bought out the F-16 since they're basically a monopoly now. But......the only answer to my question is a pedantic non-issue that's totally besides the point???
Svend_Dellepude Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 Well. Turn the fuel selector knob out of norm, and you can set bingo higher than 6000. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Nealius Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 Out of NORM, and BINGO is based on total fuel or 6667 lbs, which is lower. So I still can't go higher than 6667lbs, and also doesn't answer my question...
Svend_Dellepude Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 True. Apparently that's how it is. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
ED Team cofcorpse Posted April 11, 2020 ED Team Posted April 11, 2020 Or do I just misinterpret your post? Yes, there is slight misunderstanding. BINGO depends on FUEL QTY SEL knob position. Bingo calculation takes into account two values - fuselage and total fuel. If the selector is in NORM, BINGO is set if any value is less than bingo value. As fuselage fuel can't be higher than 6070 lbs approximately, BINGO of 6100 will always be triggered. If the selector is in another position, fuselage fuel is set to 6667, according to available information. But the conditions for BINGO remain the same - if any value less than bingo value. So, if BINGO is set to values higher than 6667, it will always be triggered. I hope, this explanation helps a little! 1
MadCat1381 Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 Yes, it helps. Thanks! But this system setup very confusing. :wassat:
mvsgas Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 Might be confusing or some may not like it but it is accurate and matches this specific version of the F-16 circa 2007. So thanks ED. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Nealius Posted April 11, 2020 Author Posted April 11, 2020 Might be confusing or some may not like it but it is accurate and matches this specific version of the F-16 circa 2007. So thanks ED. Was there any rationale behind this design, or was it just some bonehead engineer thing done without bothering to think how it would effect mission planning?
Frederf Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 It alerts the pilot to the situation where there is a feed problem and the wings aren't feeding into the fuselage tanks. The wing internals can have fuel transfer less than engine demand. It's also the summation variable used in trapped fuel warning. If the reservoir tanks (2x430 lbs.) are or are not included in the summation of "fuselage fuel" that makes the difference between 5775 or 4915 lbs. as maximum fuselage fuel. There is also the "out of norm" knob question. When the knob is out of norm is the bingo value based solely on totalizer with fuselage value being ignored (in which case 10,000 lbs. would be a valid bingo if totalizer >10,000) or does fuselage report a dummy "full" value which would still trip bingo if bingo 10,000 & totalizer >10,000?
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