Is the radio menu interface workable for carrier ops?

[Bearfoot]

I see that all comms are through the radio menu. While this might be manageable in the early stages of recovery, after breaking the deck it becomes dicey, and in the groove it is, frankly, insane!

 

 

- "When your aircraft is in the groove (wings level) and you have the ball in sight, you should select ‘BALL’ from

the ATC carrier radio menu"

 

- "If you do not have the ball in sight, select ‘CLARA’ from the ATC menu"

 

Honestly, in these moments my hands are stablizing the stick working the throttle pretty much 200% of time, and my eyes are bouncing across all instruments and the ball in a furious 1000x scan.

 

How am I supposed to even look at the radio menu let alone select items from it? I cannot even scratch my nose and sometimes even breathing is a distraction I don't want!

[TheGuardian]

I wonder if they will set that up as input you can assign to the HOTAS, kinda like the Bogey Dope call. I use Voice Attack so it won't be a big issue for me, but I would hope they would make that easier for others

[Sharkku]

I completely agree. It's time to implement voice recognition ATC in my humble opinion. We have to make do with Vaicom for the time being.

I even think it's outdated to select "salute" to launch. I want trackerless hand tracking à la Leap motion, to be able to interact with the cockpit and salute for launch. Seriously, the technology is here, but it is just not used. Maybe it needs more refinement before it catches on. But man, is it frustrating...

[TheGuardian]

I like Viacom, can't use because it refuses to understand my Redneck US accent no matter how much voice training I do, but it's a good program. Yea it would be great to have that kinda stuff in a VR setting, would be super immersive.

[MAXsenna]

I like Viacom, can't use because it refuses to understand my Redneck US accent no matter how much voice training I do, but it's a good program. Yea it would be great to have that kinda stuff in a VR setting, would be super immersive.

 

Haha! That cracked me up. There are some tricks to do it better. Both MSSR, VA and VAICOM. My "American" accent ain't no Texan, but I get really frustrated sometimes as well.

 

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Bearfoot]

Suggestion to ED:

 

Make the clara/ball call automatic.

 

Bankler's landing script can figure if you are clara or the ball is visible, so it should be possible.

[TheGuardian]

Suggestion to ED:

 

Make the clara/ball call automatic.

 

Bankler's landing script can figure if you are clara or the ball is visible, so it should be possible.

 

I would disagree only because part of what makes the carrier so challenging and fun (at least once you have it down) is all the procedures and calls. Real pilots have to call and talk on the radios while flying, while this may not be ideal for all players, making it a command key would be the best option for those not using VA or MP servers with human ATC

[TheGuardian]

Haha! That cracked me up. There are some tricks to do it better. Both MSSR, VA and VAICOM. My "American" accent ain't no Texan, but I get really frustrated sometimes as well.

 

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

Yea I have had to shorten a lot of calls to key words so VA doesn't go all crazy on me.

[MAXsenna]

Yea I have had to shorten a lot of calls to key words so VA doesn't go all crazy on me.

I've added about 2000+ words and phrases to MSSR dictionary. It was worth it. Made aliases for VAICOM keywords. And now I'm gonna test a "script" in the VA profile to catch the "words" MSSR thinks I say, so I can add them as "catch alls" or blocks. I'm really getting there. Haha

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

I would disagree only because part of what makes the carrier so challenging and fun (at least once you have it down) is all the procedures and calls. Real pilots have to call and talk on the radios while flying, while this may not be ideal for all players, making it a command key would be the best option for those not using VA or MP servers with human ATC

Agree!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Bearfoot]

I would disagree only because part of what makes the carrier so challenging and fun (at least once you have it down) is all the procedures and calls. Real pilots have to call and talk on the radios while flying, while this may not be ideal for all players, making it a command key would be the best option for those not using VA or MP servers with human ATC

 

Yes, but real pilots do not have to take their eyes off the ball to look at some ghost text in their visual screen and then bob their heads or fingers to click some items.

 

Honestly, this is immersion-breaking, clunky, and adds layers of distraction. Difficult to take the "moar realistic" argument seriously here. I am all for replicating the challenges and difficulties of actual flight. I am for living with compromises in authenticity and immersion to capture these challenges. But manipulating a menu in the middle of the groove --- that is exactly the wrong kind of challenge to add into the simulator. It's not just fake but is literally shining-in-your-face fake and destroys the authenticity of the approach. Worse, it compromises your ability to do the actual stuff you should be doing. We would call that "negative training".

 

Sure, VoiceAttack etc. helps overcome this (but still have to deal with all those ghost texts suddenly appearing in your vision --- i.e.. immersion breaking). But does that mean that Supercarrier landings are totally compromised in terms of authenticity and playability out-of-the-box if you do not use VA?

Edited April 20, 2020 by Bearfoot

[TheGuardian]

Yes, but real pilots do not have to take their eyes off the ball to look at some ghost text in their visual screen and then bob their heads or fingers to click some items.

 

Honestly, this is immersion-breaking, clunky, and adds layers of distraction. Difficult to take the "moar realistic" argument seriously here. I am all for replicating the challenges and difficulties of actual flight. I am for living with compromises in authenticity and immersion to capture these challenges. But manipulating a menu in the middle of the groove --- that is exactly the wrong kind of challenge to add into the simulator. It's not just fake but is literally shining-in-your-face fake and destroys the authenticity of the approach. Worse, it compromises your ability to do the actual stuff you should be doing. We would call that "negative training".

 

Sure, VoiceAttack etc. helps overcome this (but still have to deal with all those ghost texts suddenly appearing in your vision --- i.e.. immersion breaking). But does that mean that Supercarrier landings are totally compromised in terms of authenticity and playability out-of-the-box if you do not use VA?

 

not going to disagree with you. It is a compromise. I totally understand the fumbling menus screwing up your view. I still would rather have to deal with the communication myself then have it automated, but that is purely a personal choice and nothing else. While completely not the same and not used during landings (as far as I know anyway), I think of it the same as the JHMCS feeding me information. That is just me though. The question I guess is how important are those calls really in the SC? Are they required for grading, will the wire not catch if you don't "Call the Ball"? My flight group only calls the boat one time, to announce inbound. After that we just broadcast over the freq to a human ATC, or even to no one if we don't have an ATC that night.

 

I have spent a lot of time setting up VoiceAttack to be able to do what I want and try to keep it as real life as possible. It's not perfect by no means, but their really isn't a better way. A perfect example is when I come up to the tanker, I have it setup so I hit the transmit button, say Texaco, or Arco or Shell, and tell them i need to refuel. Normally the comm menu closes after you complete one command, but I have it set to re-open the comms and sit in the "Pre-Contact" menu. After I call Pre-Contact it does the exact same thing and waits for me to either get full or abort. Again it's not perfect but it gives me the illusion of actually transmitting and talking with a tanker, without have to move my hands off the HOTAS.

[Eaglewings]

Suggestion to ED:

 

Make the clara/ball call automatic.

 

Bankler's landing script can figure if you are clara or the ball is visible, so it should be possible.

The manual released for the supercarrier al says those calls would be made automatically if you within proper parameters.

[fmedges]

not going to disagree with you. It is a compromise. I totally understand the fumbling menus screwing up your view. I still would rather have to deal with the communication myself then have it automated, but that is purely a personal choice and nothing else. While completely not the same and not used during landings (as far as I know anyway), I think of it the same as the JHMCS feeding me information. That is just me though. The question I guess is how important are those calls really in the SC? Are they required for grading, will the wire not catch if you don't "Call the Ball"? My flight group only calls the boat one time, to announce inbound. After that we just broadcast over the freq to a human ATC, or even to no one if we don't have an ATC that night.

 

I have spent a lot of time setting up VoiceAttack to be able to do what I want and try to keep it as real life as possible. It's not perfect by no means, but their really isn't a better way. A perfect example is when I come up to the tanker, I have it setup so I hit the transmit button, say Texaco, or Arco or Shell, and tell them i need to refuel. Normally the comm menu closes after you complete one command, but I have it set to re-open the comms and sit in the "Pre-Contact" menu. After I call Pre-Contact it does the exact same thing and waits for me to either get full or abort. Again it's not perfect but it gives me the illusion of actually transmitting and talking with a tanker, without have to move my hands off the HOTAS.

 

I don’t mind doing it, but would like the option to make it a one press key bind.

[Bearfoot]

not going to disagree with you. It is a compromise. I totally understand the fumbling menus screwing up your view. I still would rather have to deal with the communication myself then have it automated, but that is purely a personal choice and nothing else. While completely not the same and not used during landings (as far as I know anyway), I think of it the same as the JHMCS feeding me information. That is just me though. The question I guess is how important are those calls really in the SC? Are they required for grading, will the wire not catch if you don't "Call the Ball"? My flight group only calls the boat one time, to announce inbound. After that we just broadcast over the freq to a human ATC, or even to no one if we don't have an ATC that night.

 

I have spent a lot of time setting up VoiceAttack to be able to do what I want and try to keep it as real life as possible. It's not perfect by no means, but their really isn't a better way. A perfect example is when I come up to the tanker, I have it setup so I hit the transmit button, say Texaco, or Arco or Shell, and tell them i need to refuel. Normally the comm menu closes after you complete one command, but I have it set to re-open the comms and sit in the "Pre-Contact" menu. After I call Pre-Contact it does the exact same thing and waits for me to either get full or abort. Again it's not perfect but it gives me the illusion of actually transmitting and talking with a tanker, without have to move my hands off the HOTAS.

 

Yep! Tanking is definitely one of those places where I really would like to keep "all hands/eyes on the task", and the radio menu just gets in the way.

[Greyman]

I don’t mind doing it, but would like the option to make it a one press key bind.

 

If you have something like the Logitech G keys on your keyboard or even the ability to record a keyboard macro against a controller button, then maybe assign a key combination(s) to one or more of those.

 

You would probably need to make sure that you start from a known state, maybe with F12 being the first keypress, but then it should just be a matter of inserting the keypresses that would open the comms menu for the right radio and then navigate to and execute your desired command.

[Gary]

Wether the interaction is via a key press, or VA, I think the ability the "hide" the actual menu text message and your own pilots voice should be options.

 

 

I know Viacom gives you the ability to remove your own voice (the DCS option is not working anymore) and DCS provides an option to remove subtitles but being able to do both (inc radio menu) would be good in my view.

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

Gary

[flybull]

In RL, The ball call is a hell of a lot easier to accomplish than in the sim.

 

I suggest 3 options:

 

1: Auto comms, based on the sim detecting where you are in the pattern, weather or not ball is visible.

 

2: Abbreviated - where activation of a function key or HOTAS binding will initiate the relevant comm

 

3: Existing method - using menus/VA etc.

 

Personally id always use 1 or 2....

[sthompson]

A post from developer Hollywood of VAICOM Pro today said to expect the next update to be coordinated with the SC release. So we may have voice recognition interaction with the SC from day one!

 

I completely agree. It's time to implement voice recognition ATC in my humble opinion. We have to make do with Vaicom for the time being.

I even think it's outdated to select "salute" to launch. I want trackerless hand tracking à la Leap motion, to be able to interact with the cockpit and salute for launch. Seriously, the technology is here, but it is just not used. Maybe it needs more refinement before it catches on. But man, is it frustrating...

[Sharkku]

A post from developer Hollywood of VAICOM Pro today said to expect the next update to be coordinated with the SC release. So we may have voice recognition interaction with the SC from day one!

 

That is good news!