Server with reduced and Realistic setting

[The_GOZR]

Well well i was surprise to see some interesting things..

 

=RAF=Server = Realistic

=TuAF=Server I = Realistic

=TuAF=Server II = Realistic

=RvE=Dedictated = reduced

35qn_ded_Server = Reduced

104th_Dedicated =Reduced

AviaSibir = Realistic

9thAF_Dedicated = Realistic

JaBoG32_DediSvr = realistic

AKADO_Guns = Realistic

 

169's ????

 

 

What is going on?..... West Coast US servers are on "reduced" when Europe are using more the "Realistic" setting..

[GGTharos]

Because realistic isn't realistic. How about that?

 

But simpler than this: People play with the settings they prefer.

 

What's the problem?

[The_GOZR]

Tharos no G's are realistic really in a sim but do you care to elaborate more?

 

What the Reduced vs realistic differences are.. the G +/- limits or the sustained tolerances ?

 

is this affect only the pilot or also the Plane ?

[GGTharos]

This affects the pilot. The G-tolerance in 'realistic' G is set to correspond with that of a pilot who is not doing AGSM straining and does not have a G-suit on.

 

'Reduced G' prevents G-LOC, and is also unrealistic, but it does not prevent high-speed, high-g dogfights to happen like they are meant to.

Basically, any vPilot who knows his best bet is to keep a fight high and fast, 'Realistic' G destroys your ability to do so, thus giving the fight to those who would prefer to fight low and slow.

 

Realistic G does not change the G +/-. It adds G-Loc and some other effects. However, they simply happen too soon. In addition, there is no guard against stick spikes that cause excessive g, so a poor joystick can easily make you lose a fight via blackout or G-loc.

 

To answer your question more plainly now that I read your post again - it is the sustained tolerances, and onset times.

[S77th-konkussion]

The "realistic" modeling is a bit of a lowball with respect to real life grayout/ blackout tolerances of well trained modern fighter pilots. The reduced is a little more reflective of what they train to tolerate daily

[The_GOZR]

Well this is something very interesting i just tested both and hard to say the Realistic keep you off doing Dogfights at high speed ( high G's ) and it is a very different strategy.. I'm maybe thinking toward your opinion but i will do more of my tests.. I'll see what i can come out with. trying to separate the Sim to real and mix both in the mind and situations..

 

But it's open to discussion...

[IvanK]

There are a number of contributors here with real world experience. Their opinion is that reduced provides a better representation of Greyout /blackout thresholds for the average Squadron driver.

[GGTharos]

It isn't open to discussion. There's science behind it. ;)

Thre's a STOHL curve out there in public for the average human, and that's just what LOMAC's 'Realistic G' correponds to. Some guy off the street. Not a person who's been trained to endure them ... and who has a G-suit ... and so on.

 

Well this is something very interesting i just tested both and hard to say the Realistic keep you off doing Dogfights at high speed ( high G's ) and it is a very different strategy.. I'm maybe thinking toward your opinion but i will do more of my tests.. I'll see what i can come out with. trying to separate the Sim to real and mix both in the mind and situations..

 

But it's open to discussion...

[The_GOZR]

Tharos Realistic go to high g's as well this is not for Joe from your Hood.

I anderstand what you say and agree with the G suit .. I just don't know in the sim if teh plane sustain damage etc..

 

Science it self is open to discussion...

[GGTharos]

Depends on the plane. For example, LOMAC does not model damage to flaps under high speed or high-g. But in general, at the F-15 is built to fight at high-G loading at high speed, for example. The Su-27 and MiG-29 can also, but IIRC there are some restrictions (RL) based on payload and fuel loading.

[TorwaK]

 

=TuAF=Server II = No G's ( probably for beginers )

 

Wrong. It use realistic too.

[The_GOZR]

TorWaK Thank you i edited my first post.

Any opinion on that matter TorWaK ? also what difference between the two TuAF's servers ?

 

Thank you

[RedTiger]

It isn't open to discussion. There's science behind it. ;)

Thre's a STOHL curve out there in public for the average human, and that's just what LOMAC's 'Realistic G' correponds to. Some guy off the street. Not a person who's been trained to endure them ... and who has a G-suit ... and so on.

 

Yeah, I thought everyone was on the same page about this one. I would have assumed that most severs, even ones that have no external view, mini HUD, or labels, would be using the reduced G setting.

[luckybob9]

TorWaK Thank you i edited my first post.

Any opinion on that matter TorWaK ? also what difference between the two TuAF's servers ?

 

Thank you

 

First one is primarily air to air

Second one is air to ground

[The_GOZR]

Please try the same plane with just the Realistic vs Reduced.. I think the plane fly very differently.. not only G's limit.. Hummm..

 

In competition which setting are they using ?

It seems i just did very briefly that in Reduced flight the plane lost some Lbs and in Realistic well even heavier than the real ones on some aspects.. 30 secs on plane but i will try better later.

[TucksonSonny]

Well well i was surprise to see some interesting things..

 

=RAF=Server = Realistic

=TuAF=Server I = Realistic

=TuAF=Server II = Realistic

=RvE=Dedictated = reduced

35qn_ded_Server = Reduced

104th_Dedicated =Reduced

AviaSibir = Realistic

9thAF_Dedicated = Realistic

JaBoG32_DediSvr = realistic

AKADO_Guns = Realistic

 

169's ????

 

 

What is going on?..... West Coast US servers are on "reduced" when Europe are using more the "Realistic" setting..

 

 

Good to know!

 

Anyway it is REALISTIC for me!

 

The reduced servers were added to my black/ignore list!

 

PS. I also do hate it when the missile slider is NOT on default…

[Cosmonaut]

some of us still believe realistic G's is alot closer to real than "Reduced"

 

Its very rare real fighter pilots turn tighter than 5 to 6 G's maximum in dogfights training or in real battle.

 

Although the current realistic could be fine tuned in some areas and be a little more tolerant. Reduced is too extreme by a long shot IMHO.

 

BTW the F15 is every bit as lethal as the su27 in Lock On gunzo dogfights if fuel weight loads are the same.

 

 

I agree.

 

You can't obviously feel the effects of G's in the virtual skies so every maneuver usually takes place in the extreme G region. With G's set to real I always consider every turn and for most maneuvers I stay around 4 G's so by the time I get in closer I can pull two 8+ G maneuvers before blacking out. But it really doesn't bother me which G setting is being used.

[GGTharos]

So why don't you go get Ace Combat and have them program in a setting that you 'feel' is realistic? I'd prefer realistic to be realistic, thanks.

I don't much care if you think two 8G turns are enough for you, or if you run around carefully monitoring how many G's you make in each turn - it's simply not relevant what you *believe*. The only thing that matters is that 'realistic' resembles reality. It doesn't, not for a pilot doing AGSM straining and in a G-suit, so 'realistic' is the wrong word here.

Neither 'Reduced' nor 'Realistic' are realistic, but 'Realistic' prevents actually using the F-15 in a realistic manner. You don't have to like it, you don't have to believe it, it's the way it is.

[Cosmonaut]

So why don't you go get Ace Combat and have them program in a setting that you 'feel' is realistic? I'd prefer realistic to be realistic, thanks.

I don't much care if you think two 8G turns are enough for you, or if you run around carefully monitoring how many G's you make in each turn - it's simply not relevant what you *believe*. The only thing that matters is that 'realistic' resembles reality. It doesn't, not for a pilot doing AGSM straining and in a G-suit, so 'realistic' is the wrong word here.

Neither 'Reduced' nor 'Realistic' are realistic, but 'Realistic' prevents actually using the F-15 in a realistic manner. You don't have to like it, you don't have to believe it, it's the way it is.

 

 

I never said you have to "care" I was just stating the fact that with the G setting set to real you have to consider how hard you're flying and monitor your G loads. In real life you can feel the G's so I doubt you'd pull 8 G's just to pull off of a target while attacking ground units or what ever. Also I never said two 8 G's was enough or realistic I was merely stating another game fact that you can pull 2 8+ g turns with out blacking out which isn't so bad.

 

We all know that absolute realism in this area won't be found in lockon but IMO I find it more immersive and realistic to fly with real G's set to real even if a real pilot could take more G's.

 

And as for "not liking it .. or believing it" well can't see how that has anything to do with what I said.. seeing as I stated it doesn't bother me either way. Have what ever settings you want, it's your server so what ever melts your butter is fine by me.

 

Things are getting quite tense around here eh.. :joystick:

[TorwaK]

TorWaK Thank you i edited my first post.

Any opinion on that matter TorWaK ? also what difference between the two TuAF's servers ?

 

Thank you

 

The matter is depend on person, some people believe in Reduced G option is near real life at Lock-On and some of them not. In my opinion it's about flight confort and many people don't like to get blackout often.

 

=TuAF= Server-I (Both Air-to-air/ground missions work on it)

=TuAF= Server-II (Only air-to-ground missions work on it)

[PoleCat]

Boy this is quite strange. Since GOZR's original post is casting so much un-needed and unfair negativity on this setting we are going to consider putting it back to realistic for the time being.

 

I beleive GG is correct in the factual information he has reported here.

IMHO it is more that the people who are opposed to this setting want it set to realistic for thier ego's even though it is NOT more realisitc then reduced. So in effect you are just kidding yourself, either way you are not pulling real G's and at realistic you are flying less realisitic then at reduced with regards to black out and G-Lock. So let's be clear, you do not want it more realistic, you want it less so if what GG says is true.

 

Since we want the majority of people in the community to be happy flying on our server we will take a poll or something to find out how the majority feels and set this at what ever they choose.

 

Out

[Rhen]

Its very rare real fighter pilots turn tighter than 5 to 6 G's maximum in dogfights training or in real battle.

 

That would be an incorrect assessment of the facts. With regards to training. Going over 5 G's happens pretty routinely, even in IFF - especially after burning down some fuel and getting lighter - which allows more G's to be pulled. Every BFM/DACT sortie I ever got into routinely went to 6-7+ G's. Now figure we do 3-6 engagements everytime we have this training profile and, well, you do the math. :smartass:

 

Regarding "real battle" it all depends on the engagement. Every turning fight I've ever heard of/been involved in went to 6Gs - AT LEAST. If it gets WVR or there's SAMS involved, then we pull the number of Gs required to perform a successful maneuver. In the heat of battle, on the first day of the war, there's a few over Gs happening out there - at least for us non-G-limited types.:doh:

 

Neither realistic, nor reduced will ever be a correct assumption of what's happening to a real fighter pilot pulling G's. However, as I've stated in the past in various threads, you've got to be a pencil-necked geek to grey out/GLOC as much as the realistic setting supposes. I thought we beat this dead horse.

[Rhen]

 

....I beleive GG is correct in the factual information he has reported here.

IMHO it is more that the people who are opposed to this setting want it set to realistic for thier ego's even though it is NOT more realisitc then reduced. So in effect you are just kidding yourself, either way you are not pulling real G's and at realistic you are flying less realisitic then at reduced with regards to black out and G-Lock. So let's be clear, you do not want it more realistic, you want it less so if what GG says is true.....

 

Out

 

GG is correct, the rest are, as you've state, just kidding themselves. :music_whistling:

 

BTW, we've already done the poll thing PoleCat :lol::

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=23946

[Manawar]

Mountain out of a mole hill people... I can't wait to see what the next community complaint is. Whatever the setting is remember EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY AT THE SERVER SETTINGS. So whats the real disadvantage?

 

 

Standing by ...... :music_whistling:

[159th_Viper]

Mountain out of a mole hill...

 

 

Aye - Indeed!

 

 

 

.....So whats the real disadvantage?.....

 

 

 

No more Dead Horses to Flog mercilessly :chair: