Air to Air Refueling. Tips needed!!!

[Rooster7755]

Ok I hope im not the only one that has a hard time with this. Ill be perfectly stable and the moment i get under the refueling plane i start going up and down. Any tips on getting better at this?

[Theodore42]

Ya,

Probably what is happening is you're getting nervous and over-correcting, which everyone does. Even everyone that will reply to this post that insists they are perfect over-corrects all the time, including me.

 

Try flying in formation with the tanker for a few minutes. See if you can fly straight and level by looking only at the tanker.

This is a low pressure way to get "into the zone."

 

Then, when you approach the tanker to refuel, you will over-correct, as everyone does. But bring yourself back to that feeling of formation flying with the tanker.

 

When you start chasing the queues it is best to withdraw and reengage.

 

It really is a mental thing more than a skill thing for most people.

 

Good luck!

[MadCat1381]

I'm not a pro at this, far from it indeed.

But what works for me is to relax. If I feel tension build I tell myself to relax.

Tiny inputs to the stick and the throttle.

Watch the lights on the tanker and the tanker as a whole, do not look at the HUD.

[Emmy]

Get your vertical sorted first and then smooooooothly drive forward at no more than 1 or 2 knots over tanker speed to center both guide lights. Whoa up there and let the boomer do his thing.

Anticipate the lights and enjoy the ride.

[HoYa]

Mi had the same issues, make sure you have a bit of a dead spot on the joystick settings and a gradual curve. Help me a lot...

[AlexCaboose]

Mi had the same issues, make sure you have a bit of a dead spot on the joystick settings and a gradual curve. Help me a lot...

 

You don't need curves in the Viper - the FLCS will go into takeoff/landing gains when the refuel door is open which is basically the same thing as a curve. Completely unnecessary.

 

 

@OP: The best way to get good at AAR with the Viper is flying the lights. I disagree about the notion that everyone over-corrects. Once you get good at it, this isn't something that happens. When you are flying the lights, your left light is up/down and right is forward/back. Get used to keeping your eyes padlocked to these at all times. Make constant minor adjustments to your throttle and you'll be refueling like a pro in no time.

[stevierof]

Disable the HUD once you're precontact. This greatly reduces PIO when you're practising.

Focus the lights and the aircraft position changes above you.

[MAXsenna]

I'm having a hard time with this as well. So does beer help?

I'm not kidding actually!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Emmy]

I'm having a hard time with this as well. So does beer help?

I'm not kidding actually!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

Relaxing certainly helps, so if you need a beer to chill, Cheers!

[MAXsenna]

Relaxing certainly helps, so if you need a beer to chill, Cheers!

Thanks!

Don't know why I didn't think of this before. Might be I usually don't drink and fly.

Cheers to you too!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[macedk]

Anticipate and don't chase it.

 

It is bloody difficult.

 

Throttle control is key.

 

Fly a lot of formation, this will help your sight picture.

 

Practice.

 

Turn turbulence off for know :)

[macedk]

Anticipate and don't chase it.

 

It is bloody difficult.

 

Throttle control is key.

 

Fly a lot of formation, this will help your sight picture.

 

Practice.

 

Turn turbulence off for know :)

[shu77]

This is why this is a job for some people. relax. adjust your input curve. Its meant to be hard.

[FUgaijin]

Some of the up and down is the tanker itself, just ride it out. Dont put any curves in the viper, they are not needed. follow the lights and you will be fine. after the first couple its easy.

[=Panther=]

There is no sweet spot where you can be hands off. You will need to be working the throttle a lot, the stick just a little. However I don’t mean going full burner and back to idle. There’s a zone that you find yourself in, once in that zone you will start to move the throttle forwards and backwards to maintain positioning. Those of us who fly in close formation a lot have it called “see the motion, stop the motion”. So if I see the tanker start to pull away, I’ll quickly advance the throttle a little bit but then I’ll snap it back to my zone. This prevents over corrections, but will likely cause them early on for someone not familiar with it.

 

Close formation and or tanking isn’t something that is easy. My best advice is to start with small goals. Fly in form on the wing, progress to under the tanker trailing the boom, move in close, and then try to connect, each connection try to stay longer on the boom. Don’t get frustrated or tense up, wiggle the toes (don’t ask how it works, it just does). Last thing make sure you open your Aerial Refuel Door early on, it brings the viper flcs gains down so the controls are slightly dampened.

[bradboom]

Hi, there! When I was in the USAF (retired 2 years ago) I was an instructor at the tanker school house in Oklahoma. Air Refueling is very difficult and is harder in the sim because you don’t have a seat of the pants feel for how you are moving around minutely. The advice you got about practicing formation flying first is spot on...try flying #2 in formation or off the tanker’s wing and maintaining a position for a long period. After you are good at that, then try moving to precontact, when you can maintain precontact precisely, move in to contact. Believe it or not, when real pilots learn air refueling for real, their first flight is just maintaining precontact. They won’t move into contact until a subsequent flight. And this is after they have had a year of pilot training under their belt flying formation with others. Above all, just practice, use small inputs and when you get frustrated, just back out and cool down. Right before I retired, our C-17 squadron commander in Oklahoma commented that when his student pilots need remedial training, far and above, it was for air refueling as opposed to the other skills they need (airdrop, assault landings, etc.) so don’t feel bad about it being difficult.

[bradboom]

One more word of advice, if you want to move forward or back, it is a minimum of 3 throttle movements...one throttle push to move forward, one pull to stop moving forward and one smaller push to stabilize. And, from a B-52 pilot I met, it can be sometimes upwards of 8 throttle movements to move in one direction. And if you throttle forward, even minimally, you are gaining speed, which increases lift, which will raise your nose and climb. You will get the opposite, when reducing power. You can see it happen when flying straight and level in the F-16 and add a little bit of power. So, anticipate and expect to climb or dive slightly when adding or subtracting power when approaching the tanker.. Practice, practice, practice!

[Rooster7755]

Thanks everyone. ill relax and keep trying

[deadpool]

One more word of advice, if you want to move forward or back, it is a minimum of 3 throttle movements...one throttle push to move forward, one pull to stop moving forward and one smaller push to stabilize. And, from a B-52 pilot I met, it can be sometimes upwards of 8 throttle movements to move in one direction. And if you throttle forward, even minimally, you are gaining speed, which increases lift, which will raise your nose and climb. You will get the opposite, when reducing power. You can see it happen when flying straight and level in the F-16 and add a little bit of power. So, anticipate and expect to climb or dive slightly when adding or subtracting power when approaching the tanker.. Practice, practice, practice!

 

That bit about it raising the nose should be compensated by the FLCS immediatly, as it trims you for 1g regardless of your speed in change.

 

This is currently something that is quite pronounced in DCS and I reported it as a defect for the time being.

[Deano87]

Don't try and run before you can walk, If formation flying is still a challenge for you I suggest putting a bit more practice time into that, You can even fly it with the refueling door open so that you're using the same AAR control gains as you would be while you are actually tanking. Just spend some time flying off the tankers wingtip, the better references of the wingtip in your vision should help you with throttle control etc. Once you're feeling nice and stable on the wingtip and you've got an idea of the throttle bracket you will need then slide over and try refueling.

 

Be aware though that AAR and formation flying in general does fatigue you quite quickly as it requires a lot of concentration, its easy to get frustrated and end up overflying. My brother always says that you have a finite supply of "formation juice" and when you've used it all up its better to go off and do something else and come back once you've made some more. ;)

[SilverHawk94]

Ok I hope im not the only one that has a hard time with this. Ill be perfectly stable and the moment i get under the refueling plane i start going up and down. Any tips on getting better at this?

 

No sir you're not. Im having the same problem. Ive been flying planes in DCS for years and I still cant get AAR down correctly. Too be honest, I really need to take the time and practice AAR more. Good Luck