reported AN/APG-63 range is under-represented

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

I just noticed the steam manual mentions the in game F-15C has an APG-63v1, shouldn't then the detection figures be made higher in line with estimates on that radar or the APG-70.

 

So essentially a APG-63 with added power to hit -70 estimates

[GGTharos]

The APG-63 and APG-70 shouldn't different much in detection ranges.  There's no power increase or anything like this, and both radars have a similarly powerful radar processor.   The main drive for the APG-70 had to do with A2G modes and maintainability - I'm not going to go into it too deep, but it went as far as figuring out what type of solder to use due to environmental protection regulations etc.

 

The original APG-63 vs an MSIP APG-63 would have some difference - the idea here is that the worst tuned PSP radar performed as well as the best tuned pre-PSP radar.   In what way they don't say, but you can imagine tuning will affect range (so in a way, reliable detection range), tracking stability and other fun stuff that isn't simulated.  An MSIP radar (so PSP+) would perform better overall, just an APG-70 and APG-63v1 would ... I would expect only modest range gains over the PSP radar based on possibly better self noise control and a bit more processing oomph.

Edited March 1, 2021 by GGTharos

[SgtPappy]

A bit of a tangent: Do I understand correctly that every single F-15C built except the final 43 (APG-70) had the APG-63 with PSP? Are these referred to now as the APG-63(v)0? Had a little trouble patching together what information I could google.

[GGTharos]

I guess you could call them v(0), but they're really referred to as PSP radars.   The radar improvements were part of MSIP and MSIP II  (F-15A/B and C/D, IIRC) in any case, and there is a fairly good timeline of the various upgrades made over the years.   The PSP radar is what made the eagle what it is.

 

And yes, a limited number of F-15Cs received the APG-70.  Either way the 63 continued to receive upgrades on a regular basis.

Edited March 1, 2021 by GGTharos

[henshao]

cute little chart I found in passing

 

[GGTharos]

Found where, and what does it represent?

[henshao]

4 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

Found where, and what does it represent?

 

from what I understand, soviet estimates of detection distance capability of the listed fighters vs 3m^2 target at various heights...take it for what it's worth

[dundun92]

15 minutes ago, henshao said:

cute little chart I found in passing

 

And if thats its captioned as, then its pretty clear where ED probably is sourcing their current F-15 radar range numbers. Incorrect Soviet estimations strike again I guess...

Edited March 12, 2021 by dundun92

[henshao]

4 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

And if thats its captioned as, then its pretty clear where ED probably is sourcing their current F-15 radar range numbers. Incorrect Soviet estimations strike again I guess...

 

I mean that's the A model and I think it's still doing better than what we have in game...

[dundun92]

27 minutes ago, henshao said:

I mean that's the A model and I think it's still doing better than what we have in game...

ehh not rly, 61nm vs 5m^2 (what it comes out to when you do the math) is pretty much what it is in-game rn. But your right, this (innacurate) estimation is still for the A, not PSP radar like we have in game anyway.

Edited March 12, 2021 by dundun92

[GGTharos]

Actually the A did better than this.  This has to be based on flanker radar technology estimates or something.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

I wonder if we'll end up seeing the F-15E in DCS before the Eagle gets its radar fixed.

I want to have faith that it'll be fixed by then but I know thats a lie.

Edited March 13, 2021 by TaxDollarsAtWork
typo

[dundun92]

53 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I wonder if we'll end up seeing the F-15E in DCS before the Eagle.

Id guess yes, and thats accounting for RAZBAM being RAZBAM

[Ironhand]

16 hours ago, dundun92 said:

And if thats its captioned as, then its pretty clear where ED probably is sourcing their current F-15 radar range numbers. Incorrect Soviet estimations strike again I guess...

 

 

Without context (sourcing), the chart’s fairly meaningless. Who knows what it’s purpose was in the first place? Plus, I’m fairly certain that ED would use more than a single chart for reference.

[Hamood]

i highly doubt ED would do a feature change on an FC3 plane at this point. We should definitely consider them finished aircraft, maybe a full fidelity F-15c would be nice though.

[dundun92]

On 3/13/2021 at 6:29 AM, Ironhand said:

 

Without context (sourcing), the chart’s fairly meaningless. Who knows what it’s purpose was in the first place? Plus, I’m fairly certain that ED would use more than a single chart for reference.

youd be surprised how ED does things sometimes

[Spurts]

I have hope that FC3 planes are going to be updated for 2.7, but not sooner.

[Vekkinho]

Back in the LO and early FC (1.12B) days F-15C was as good as AWACS so I steered away from flying it and meeting it in virtual skies (literally). Now it's an underdog in DCS skies so I kinda grew into it.

 

The fact is F-15C got nerfed. It can't power climb, can't sustain in turn fights without pitchdown as much as it could, radar got degraded by at least 30%, Sparrows suddenly slowed down etc.Guess those Redfor rants from back then made a difference. It's quite unfair and unrealistic for a F-15C o I feel kinda sorry for it.

[dundun92]

1 minute ago, Vekkinho said:

Redfor rants

not rly, red FC3 is just as underperforming. ED simply doesnt care about FC3 it seems. Red or blue.

[henshao]

4 hours ago, Vekkinho said:

Back in the LO and early FC (1.12B) days F-15C was as good as AWACS so I steered away from flying it and meeting it in virtual skies (literally). Now it's an underdog in DCS skies so I kinda grew into it.

 

The fact is F-15C got nerfed. It can't power climb, can't sustain in turn fights without pitchdown as much as it could, radar got degraded by at least 30%, Sparrows suddenly slowed down etc.Guess those Redfor rants from back then made a difference. It's quite unfair and unrealistic for a F-15C o I feel kinda sorry for it.

 

man, that takes me back. so many guys used to play the Su-27 instead of F-15 because "they were really flying the plane" and "none of that fly by wire crap." 

 

though I don't remember a time ever when the F-15's radar was up to snuff, as I understand it flanker and eagle have the same radar as far the game is concerned

[Vekkinho]

Well, FC3 has let's see 9 flyble planes on top of Su-25T and TF-51D you get for free with DCSW.

 

Price of FC3 is equal to one of DCS WWII Assets pack so one cannot expect much brains from it.

[SgtPappy]

On 4/2/2021 at 2:55 PM, dundun92 said:

not rly, red FC3 is just as underperforming. ED simply doesnt care about FC3 it seems. Red or blue.

I'm naive but I still have hope... the thread says it's being investigated after all! Fingers are crossed that this gets addressed! 

[dundun92]

40 minutes ago, SgtPappy said:

it's being investigated

its been like that for almost a year now ;(

[Oceandar]

Its because they consider FC3 as a finished product AFAIK. So no new feature whatsoever only support for bug fixes which down low priority.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

That's what I don't understand

 

The low detection is a bug not a feature.