EnDSchultz Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I think i found a correlation, allbeit a strange one. If i give the bandit some missiles, then the Sparrows won't track. If i strip the bandit clean (guns only) the Sparrows work fine. Tacview files attached accordingly :thumbup: Close. It seems like the missiles will sometimes track if the enemy uses chaff. Although even then they have a fairly high probability of going stupid anyway. Furthermore, the -F and -MH models will go for enemies who pop chaff; I haven't gotten the -M to track under any circumstances so far. Edited May 23, 2020 by EnDSchultz
captain_dalan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Close. It seems like the missiles will sometimes track if the enemy uses chaff. Although even then they have a fairly high probability of going stupid anyway. Furthermore, the -F and -MH models will go for enemies who pop chaff; I haven't gotten the -M to track under any circumstances so far. Not sure on the first one, as the AI always seams to launch CM immediately after being fired upon and a missiles leaves the launching platform. This is apparent in both Tacview files. In the first one, where the bandit is itself armed and fires back, the blue's missiles never begin to track. In the 2nd one, against a clean bandit, they track right away, despite bandit's chaffing. The First missile is defeated through maneuvering, while the 2nd hits the target. As for the second one, yeah, i haven't made the M's work too. I may do some more test runs this afternoon. Cheers! :thumbup: P.S. Surprised by the lack of reports on this one, it seams very few users actually pack AIM-7's along for the ride. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack
IronMike Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 We declared them as they do not work at all. In my tests (one version ahead of you guys), none of the missiles tracks even remotely. We're currently working with ED to solve it. Hopefully this can be done until the next patch. Our apologies for this huge inconvenience, we're not sure yet what happened as we didnt change anything and they worked fine just a couple versions ago still. In any case, the issue has ED's attention and I am sure they will do everything to help fix it. Thank you all for your kind reports, as always. Heatblur Simulations Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage. http://www.heatblur.com/ https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
Wavehopper Posted May 23, 2020 Author Posted May 23, 2020 No worries mike, that’s why it’s a beta. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9G7AVfi68SovXCTCH-7fA
captain_dalan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 We declared them as they do not work at all. In my tests (one version ahead of you guys), none of the missiles tracks even remotely. Yikes! I can't help but wonder what went wrong :joystick: Keep us informed mate! Our apologies for this huge inconvenience, we're not sure yet what happened as we didnt change anything and they worked fine just a couple versions ago still. In any case, the issue has ED's attention and I am sure they will do everything to help fix it. Thank you all for your kind reports, as always. As always, it's a pleasure mate. It's what we all signed up for! :thumbup: Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 I think i found a correlation, albeit a strange one. If i give the bandit some missiles, then the Sparrows won't track. If i strip the bandit clean (guns only) the Sparrows work fine. They don't track if I fire them at the Tu-95 and Yak-40 in the free flight mission, either... So it's not that sadly... Spoiler Ryzen 7 9800X3D | 96GB G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5-6000 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 990Pro 4TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero VPC MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | VPC CM3 throttle | VPC CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | VPC R1-Falcon pedals with damper | Pro Flight Trainer Puma OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings Win11 Pro 24H2 - VBS/HAGS/Game Mode ON
captain_dalan Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 They don't track if I fire them at the Tu-95 and Yak-40 in the free flight mission, either... So it's not that sadly... Odd. They worked against M2K's and F-15's. Are they M's? Or F/MH's? Also, are there other planes around? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack
sLYFa Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 Tested all three variants against a clean Su-25, none worked. Maybe it depends on the target? i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD
Quid Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 Just ran some tests myself against the Su-25, MiG-29S and JF-17. Not a single AIM-7 tracked on its target, just fell off the rail and went stupid. Very strange. I tested the AIM-7F, AIM-7M and AIM-7MH. Rig: i9 10900KF @5.3GHz | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 3600MHz | ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 3090 24GB OC | ASUS Maximus XII Formula | 2x 2TB Intel SSD6 NVMe M.2 | VKB F-14CG on Gunfighter III Base | TM Warthog HOTAS | TM Rudder Pedals | HP Reverb G2 Hangar: FC3 | F-86F | F-4E [Pre-Ordered] | F-5E | F-14A/B | F-15E | F-16C | F/A-18C | Mirage 2000C | JF-17 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19P | MiG-21bis | AJS-37 | AV-8B | L39 | C-101 | A-10C/CII | Yak-52 | P-51D | P-47D | Fw 190 A-8/D-9 | Bf 109 | Spitfire | I-16 | UH-1 Huey
SgtPappy Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 No idea if this helps, but when I played one of my missions online with friends, they saw my AIM-7MH's track (this was on supercarrier launch day) but I could not see them track at all. The Sparrows splashed the Tu-22's on their screen but on my screen, they did not do anything but rocket forward.
captain_dalan Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 No idea if this helps, but when I played one of my missions online with friends, they saw my AIM-7MH's track (this was on supercarrier launch day) but I could not see them track at all. The Sparrows splashed the Tu-22's on their screen but on my screen, they did not do anything but rocket forward. Now that's extra weird! :huh: Who was the host? You? Or a public server? Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack
SgtPappy Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 Now that's extra weird! :huh: Who was the host? You? Or a public server? I was the host, and there were only three of us playing in total on my private server. I'm not sure if they had recorded anything. I was almost certain I was losing my mind!
Airhunter Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 Seems it's fixed for the next update? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.5.6.49718/
Wavehopper Posted May 26, 2020 Author Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Wow that was quick. Swedish efficiency at its finest. Edit- Just tested it. Yup it's working. Fine work chaps. Edited May 26, 2020 by Wavehopper https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9G7AVfi68SovXCTCH-7fA
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 I just tested it as well: fixed indeed. Sidewinders are slaved properly to the radar, and Sparrows track their intended target just fine ;-) Thank you! Spoiler Ryzen 7 9800X3D | 96GB G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5-6000 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 990Pro 4TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero VPC MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | VPC CM3 throttle | VPC CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | VPC R1-Falcon pedals with damper | Pro Flight Trainer Puma OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings Win11 Pro 24H2 - VBS/HAGS/Game Mode ON
fat creason Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 Thank ED in this case, we don't know what broke it nor what fixed it. Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations
Wavehopper Posted May 27, 2020 Author Posted May 27, 2020 Well thanks ED then in that case. Regardless, the swift response is great. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9G7AVfi68SovXCTCH-7fA
QuiGon Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 Thank ED in this case, we don't know what broke it nor what fixed it. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
panton41 Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) I was going to say: No bug: Sparrows couldn't hit the broadside of a flying barn with radar reflectors attached in real life. Tom Clancy, the "Rah, rah Team America" author that he was, quoted about a 23% hit rate during Desert Storm with the latest model in Air Wing, which probably had the latest and final statistics for the Sparrow's performance since it was in the process of retirement at the time. In Vietnam I believe it barely broke double-digits. Good that it's fixed, though. Edited May 27, 2020 by panton41 Windows 10 64-bit | Ryzen 9 3900X 4.00GHz (OC) | Asus Strix B450-F | 64GB Corsair Vengeance @ 3000MHz | two Asus GeForce 1070 Founders Edition (second card used for CUDA only) | two Silicon Power 1TB NVMe in RAID-0 | Samsung 32" 1440p Monitor | two ASUS 23" 1080p monitors | ASUS Mixed Reality VR | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind A-10C Warthog | AV-8B Harrier (N/A) | F/A-18C Hornet | F-16C Viper | F-14B Tomcat | UH-1H Huey | P-51D Mustang | F-86F Saber | Persian Gulf | NTTR
near_blind Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 Tom Clancy, the "Rah, rah Team America" author that he was, quoted about a 23% hit rate during Desert Storm with the latest model in Air Wing, which probably had the latest and final statistics for the Sparrow's performance since it was in the process of retirement at the time. In Vietnam I believe it barely broke double-digits. The AIM-7M was credited with a hit rate of greater than 50% and achieved 2/3s of coalition air kills during Desert Storm. It's hardly infallible or perfect, but to equate late model Sparrows with their performance in Vietnam is a bit reductive.
Bearfoot Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 I was going to say: No bug: Sparrows couldn't hit the broadside of a flying barn with radar reflectors attached in real life. Tom Clancy, the "Rah, rah Team America" author that he was, quoted about a 23% hit rate during Desert Storm with the latest model in Air Wing, which probably had the latest and final statistics for the Sparrow's performance since it was in the process of retirement at the time. In Vietnam I believe it barely broke double-digits. Good that it's fixed, though. IIRC, the poor performance of the Sparrows in the early days had much more to do with maintenance/storage/handling issues damaging components than design/engineering. As understanding of their delicacies (and, more generally, modern missile electronics) became widespread and a the requsite gentl(er) handling institutionalized as they are today, performance improved dramatically. Though, for sure, the earlier Sparrows also had inherent problems, these were mostly solved in the later models. A late-model Sparrow, handled with the newer SOP care from depot to rail was as potent as any air-to-air missile. This is what I recall from reading the EXCELLENT "Clashes: Air Combat over North Vietnam, 1965–1972".
Wavehopper Posted May 27, 2020 Author Posted May 27, 2020 The Robin Olds book says something similar. More to do with poor maintenance and understanding (and also weather conditions) than the missile itself. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9G7AVfi68SovXCTCH-7fA
Airhunter Posted May 29, 2020 Posted May 29, 2020 The Robin Olds book says something similar. More to do with poor maintenance and understanding (and also weather conditions) than the missile itself. Just like the R-27 family then. :lol:
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