Please, remove unnecessary liveries from DCS builds. Put them in separate packs

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

And it would remain as invisible to people who don't screw around with their liveries.

But if someone wanted to have their liveries uninstalled they’d get bugged by this any time they wanted to play online. This trouble wouldn’t be worthwhile since the skins are such a small part of the install. So this request is asking for a feature which in all likelihood wouldn’t get used. Most people probably aren’t so worried about this, they just want to play the game and not constantly screw with it. 

[Northstar98]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

But if someone wanted to have their liveries uninstalled they’d get bugged by this any time they wanted to play online.

So, something that people who run mods that break the IC already have to deal with?

In which case, so what?

And this is only the case when trying to join an enforced server, not "any time they wanted to play online".

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

This trouble wouldn’t be worthwhile since the skins are such a small part of the install.

It's ostensibly been worth the trouble for campaigns, also such a small part of the install, so why can't it be done here?

Sounds to me like this storage space argument you love so much, is totally irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Most people probably aren’t so worried about this, they just want to play the game and not constantly screw with it. 

And?

[SharpeXB]

3 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

And?

You’re spilling thousands of words over $1 of hard drive space. You must have a difficult life seemingly unable to comprehend the difference between important and unimportant things

[Bloodwyn]

May have been mentioned but it seems reasonable perhaps to at least implement a method by which one could just exclude the folders containing liveries when comparing your local files against those on ED's servers when looking to update and just leave it at that. Whether it be a check box that appears giving the option when a new update is available and it asks if you want to download now or later, or as a command to throw on the end of your shortcut to the executable in the same way "update" or "repair" works for those who don't want to just keep redownloading them.

[MAXsenna]

You’re spilling thousands of words over $1 of hard drive space. You must have a difficult life seemingly unable to comprehend the difference between important and unimportant things

Say you?
You spin me right round, baby
right round like a record, baby
Right round round round...

Enjoy your Saturday guys!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Rudel_chw]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

is the mentality of a hoarder.

I’m tired of your name calling, do whatever you want with your storage and I will do the same, and ignore you from now on as frankly you are rubbing me the wrong way. 

[Northstar98]

56 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

You’re spilling thousands of words over $1 of hard drive space.

Well, to be honest, the easy majority of all the points I keep making is stuff I've already said, sometimes many times over. I wouldn't have felt the need to do that, if you would just, y'know, read and acknowledge the point being made.

Spoiler

Pssttt: I don't even delete liveries to save storage space (again, I have plenty of it), so all that nonsense is managing to somehow be doubly irrelevant - at least to me. Though it's still irrelevant to those that do in fact do it to save storage space.

I delete them because I've made fixes to the description.lua files, problem is, it then downloads the originals all over again, so every time it updates I need to delete them again, otherwise I'm going to have multiple redundant copies of the exact same livery.

 

56 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

You must have a difficult life seemingly unable to comprehend the difference between important and unimportant things

Oof, scathing! Just one small problem though - where have I said this is an especially prevalent issue? Where have I said that this should be prioritised over "important things"?

Was it... Nowhere? Oh dear, you're not just making stuff up again are you?

It's almost like the horror that I can care about more than one thing at a time! It's almost like, I can care about major things AND minor things!

Incredible, isn't it?

32 minutes ago, Bloodwyn said:

May have been mentioned but it seems reasonable perhaps to at least implement a method by which one could just exclude the folders containing liveries when comparing your local files against those on ED's servers when looking to update and just leave it at that.

This is, in essence, exactly what a livery manager would need to do - I can already delete liveries I don't want, the problem is that they get redownloaded again, a simple way of excluding those files from being redownloaded again, would solve the issue perfectly.

20 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I’m tired of your name calling

Only, I'm not calling anybody any names here?

Do you think that filling up your space (be it drive space, space where you live etc), with unnecessary stuff you don't want, need or use is not the mentality of a hoarder?

Personally, I'm pretty tired of people not reading what's actually being said, not acknowledging any point that's made and then continuing to argue against something that's already been addressed, multiple times over. Positively sick of it in fact. In fact, sometimes I wish that there was a rule against doing that, would probably cut out a lot of this nonsense.

20 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

do whatever you want with your storage and I will do the same

Which is all I've wanted from the very start.

20 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

and ignore you from now on as frankly you are rubbing me the wrong way. 

Well, I'm very sorry you don't like me defending the points I'm making, but if so adios amigo!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Northstar98

[Bloodwyn]

4 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

This is, in essence, exactly what a livery manager would need to do - I can already delete liveries I don't

Fair enough. It seems like it would just be a relatively easy and small quality of life improvement to do for those who would just delete them anyways while avoiding the extra bandwidth usage and effort put into any extra UI etc. for a livery manager of some sort while satisfying all parties involved. I have no dog in this fight one way or the other so just throwing a suggestion out there  I do feel in general for those who have horrible internet or data limits though who just wish to optimize space for whatever reason. Went ~10 years with 60 KB/s internet which was absolutely brutal and dark days indeed. Finally got good proper internet recently though so I will excitedly download any and all liveries I want in celebration haha

[Guest]

12 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Are you sure you'd want the server to send you files you don't have?


Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

Not an expert,  but don't all servers do this now? I mean,  no players PC's have any of the mission specific info the servers have at the start now,  right?  I realize it's not much,  but they already send things like waypoints and routes for example.  As all players need to be on the same version of DCS to join the server, then no PC's should need to be sent common textures for example.  

[MAXsenna]

Not an expert,  but don't all servers do this now? I mean,  no players PC's have any of the mission specific info the servers have at the start now,  right?  I realize it's not much,  but they already send things like waypoints and routes for example.  As all players need to be on the same version of DCS to join the server, then no PC's should need to be sent common textures for example.  

Fair point! But like you say, it's only the mission it sends. For me, the user should at least acknowledge and agree to receiving files that are in addition to the mission.


Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Northstar98]

42 minutes ago, Bloodwyn said:

Fair enough. It seems like it would just be a relatively easy and small quality of life improvement to do for those who would just delete them anyways while avoiding the extra bandwidth usage and effort put into any extra UI etc.

I mean, extra UI would be nice (kinda like the existing module manager), but I at least would be satisfied with just the option for the repair utility to just ignore certain files - even if it means creating a list for folders/files it should ignore in a configuration file or something.

Oh and I might've been being a dimwit by posting a reply but not finishing that sentence - sorry about that

42 minutes ago, Bloodwyn said:

I have no dog in this fight one way or the other so just throwing a suggestion out there 

I mean, I would be perfectly fine with that suggestion.

And yeah, I'm fine with their being more and more liveries, there's liveries that I would like to see and would go with my scenarios very well. But equally there are some liveries I don't see a usage for (particularly some fictional ones) and liveries where I've made some fixes. However, when running a repair or running the updater, this will all get overwritten and originals redownloaded. I've got all the fixes saved so I can fairly easily drag and drop them back in and delete any duplicates, but this is time that adds up, when a livery manager or just something that blacklists certain folders and files from being redownloaded would mean I would only need to do it the once.

Of course, if you want everything, then you should be able to have it and I think by default, it should leave things as they are (be they downloading everything and the integrity checker if that were to be incorporated too), such that only people who want to remove them need to touch anything.

35 minutes ago, Gunslinger52 said:

Not an expert,  but don't all servers do this now?

I might be mistaken, but I don't think servers will send over files that you don't have (which would put an end to the issue of wanting to run a server with user mods (even if they're just liveries) but people who don't have them installed not seeing them).

4 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Fair point! But like you say, it's only the mission it sends. For me, the user should it least acknowledge and agree to receiving files that are in addition to the mission.

Yeah, definitely agree with that.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Northstar98

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

where have I said this is an especially prevalent issue?

You’re vomiting thousands of words over something that costs $1

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Personally, I'm pretty tired of people not reading what's actually being said,

Well you’re so wordy and keep writing the same things over and over so I suspect most people aren’t reading it. 
The answer to this topic was posted several pages ago, it’s just going in circles now. 

[Exorcet]

5 hours ago, Beirut said:

I'm all for improvements. And if this one is made, fine with me. But I see it as a minor thing. Just my opinion of course.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, obviously it's important to have a thread dedicated to it.

 

Quote

Saving space is fine and dandy. no argument. But if a game is in the 500GB +/- zone, then there comes a point where, if the player is "dedicated to the issue", he's going to have a 1TB just for it. We're the nerds and geeks who go from 16GB RAM to 32GB, possibly because of a single map. And then maybe to 64GB because of MP. We do all manner of upgrades for DCS. And as a worker bee I fully understand the value of a dollar. But in the grand scheme of DCS, investing less than the price of a single module for high speed adequate capacity storage is not much of a stretch.

This doesn't really change anything. A user could have a 10 TB disc. Once all 10 TB are filled, there is no more space. If removing 10 GB or liveries allows for a 10 GB install of a wanted program, the ability to remove the liveries was useful. This is disc size independent. 

 

Quote

 

No, I am certainly not. 

 

I played DCS on a cold baked potato years ago, and now I have a rig with a 4070 in it. That's a real luxury for me. And in the grand overview of DCS hardware requirements, storage is one area where the fix is easy to install, affordable, and benefits the game as a whole.

 

It may be easy and affordable. Or it may not be. Again it's all individually dependent. I'd also say a livery manager would benefit the game regardless, so even if hard drives were free, there would still be a reason to create one.

Quote

There are many arguments to made for this and that with DCS, but as far as storage space goes, we need it and we're in a good time and place to make it better for a very fair price.

And still, there is value in a livery manager. I'd like to have one for the benefit of myself, other players, and DCS as a whole.

 

  

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You’re spilling thousands of words over $1 of hard drive space. You must have a difficult life seemingly unable to comprehend the difference between important and unimportant things

The irony. The mountain of pure unfiltered irony.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Exorcet

[Beirut]

23 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

It may be easy and affordable. Or it may not be. Again it's all individually dependent. I'd also say a livery manager would benefit the game regardless, so even if hard drives were free, there would still be a reason to create one.

 

If it's an improvement that will make the game more fun or more effective to manage for you, then I hope you get the improvements you want. 

 

My path is a 2TB drive. But I have about 200 GB left to hit 80% capacity on my DCS dedicated NVME, so I think I'm good for another couple of maps and planes.

[SharpeXB]

30 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

This doesn't really change anything. A user could have a 10 TB disc. Once all 10 TB are filled, there is no more space. If removing 10 GB or liveries allows for a 10 GB install of a wanted program, the ability to remove the liveries was useful. This is disc size independent. 

See, you have the same problem. You can’t discern the relative importance between 10TB and 10GB or $1 vs $1,000. This seems like a personal problem and not something ED should consider in their decision making. This “problem” exists only in your imagination. 

[Beirut]

2 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

See, you have the same problem. You can’t discern the relative importance between 10TB and 10GB or $1 vs $1,000. This seems like a personal problem and not something ED should consider in their decision making. This “problem” exists only in your imagination. 

 

There is certainly the argument that liveries or no, storage capacity for DCS is an issue. Whether it's seen an undesirable, unreasonable, or even unsavory, you have to have a big fast storage setup. There is no way around it. Fortunately, good 1TB SSD storage can be had for under $50US. And 1TB gives you solid breathing room.

 

I'm certainly not against some kind of livery manager for those who want it. More power to you. But the "OMG! I have 10GB of unnecessary DCS files!" is no argument at all when storage is available, inexpensive, easy to install, and required anyway. As far as DCS goes, a hardware upgrade that costs half the price of a new plane is not an extravagance. 

[Exorcet]

26 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

See, you have the same problem. You can’t discern the relative importance between 10TB and 10GB or $1 vs $1,000. This seems like a personal problem and not something ED should consider in their decision making. This “problem” exists only in your imagination. 

Since you seem to have trouble reading between the lines, let me try a different way:

 

See, you have the same problem. You can’t discern the relative importance between 10TB and 10GB or $1 vs $1,000 (since I get to decide what is important and what has value, and no one can disagree with me ever). This seems like a personal problem and not something ED should consider in their decision making. This “problem” exists only in your imagination, (because it's not my problem so it's not real). 

So Sharpe, now that we've established that the problem is in your imagination, because I'm always right, are you going to drop the argument?

 

Example over. And just for the record I have 3 TB on my PC and another 4 TB external.

[SharpeXB]

12 minutes ago, Beirut said:

But the "OMG! I have 10GB of unnecessary DCS files!" is no argument at all when storage is available, inexpensive, easy to install, and required anyway.

This is like complaining that DCS requires a graphics card… which incidentally can cost 18x what an SSD does 

5 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

And just for the record I have 3 TB on my PC and another 4 TB external.

So you shouldn’t care about this topic at all. 

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

And still, there is value in a livery manager. I'd like to have one for the benefit of myself, other players, and DCS as a whole.

Exactly! Especially, if could be tied into the user files section. Would save newcomers a lot of time and frustration! 

 

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

The irony. The mountain of pure unfiltered irony

I'm not alone in suffering from Deja Vu I gather.  

[Exorcet]

10 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So you shouldn’t care about this topic at all. 

Yet I do, so it seems you're completely wrong on your thoughts about how disc size/availability and concern to this topic relate. But that should be pretty easy to see if one actually tries to read the information presented.

1 minute ago, MAXsenna said:

 

I'm not alone in suffering from Deja Vu I gather.  

At this point, it's just part of these forums.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Exorcet

[MAXsenna]

1 minute ago, Exorcet said:

At this point, it's just part of these forums

Yeah, I've learned to live with it too.

[SharpeXB]

13 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Exactly! Especially, if could be tied into the user files section. Would save newcomers a lot of time and frustration! 

A manager for the user-made skins is a different matter and could be worthwhile. But of course that just means being able to install even more skins

[MAXsenna]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

A manager for the user-made skins is a different matter and could be worthwhile.

Is it really different? It could be used for both and that means it could serve both sides, no? 

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

But of course that just means being able to install even more skins

Definitely! I would! But I can see it from both sides, it baffles me that you don't. I've said numerous times that I think you sometimes argue for arguments sake. But why do that if we can have a tool that will benefit all? 

That said, I'm pretty sure you're a super fun guy to have a heated discussion over a beer!

[kotor633]

Hi,
I agree with the thread creator. The first thing I do when I have reinstalled a module or after an update has been carried out: delete these liveries. A Livery Fictional Russia Air Force for the FA-18C? Or a Livery Fictional Royal Norwegian Air Force for the A-10C? Away with it.

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, kotor633 said:

Hi,
I agree with the thread creator. The first thing I do when I have reinstalled a module or after an update has been carried out: delete these liveries. A Livery Fictional Russia Air Force for the FA-18C? Or a Livery Fictional Royal Norwegian Air Force for the A-10C? Away with it.

 

I understand some people only want historical skins, but my Ka-50 came with an RCAF skin and I was happy to have it.