AH-64A Apache-simulator, 2seated 1man-sim?

[CAT_101st]

Keep in mind that the AH-64A will not be released untill 18 months or so after the releas of BS.:( SO we still get a A10a befor the AH-64A. I read in the Q&A thread that they are going to make it a 2 player pit. and will have to figure out how to make it a singel player pit in offline play. So I belive it will be a 2 player game. And at the level they are going for It will be a must have 2 players to be any fun. I plan on making a full 2 player pit in my spair room. I will buy 2 copys of the AH64 version to have a frend come over and fly with me. will have to build a new PC as well for it. :D I just might have enough time to build it befor it comes out.:joystick:

[SUBS17]

Can some one just answer the guy's question?

will the apache add-on be a 2-person pilot/gunner co-op setup, or the lame 1 person pilot/gunner Ai setup?

 

Its really not difficult at all for AI to do either job if you're flying either online or offline. I can imagine an AI pilot could take off, fly a series of waypoints attack a tgt and rtb quite easily. Probably even give the player a list of priority tgts as well. If you flew as pilot its not difficult at all for AI to function as the gunner and lock, buddy lase or engage tgts. Also regarding switching from pits is not difficult either since the AH64 has auto hover modes so you could switch and then get in the gunners seat to fire the hellfires. I'd expect a fully modeled apache sim at this level to have a fully detailed mission brief so its easier for the AI to know from the mission planning whats expected of him. You would also need to be able to identify air threats and pass it back to the AI. At the end of the day its up to the developers but all of the above has already been done before in other sims successfully. BTW there should be no difference between SP and MP regarding the AI if you were to use them in MP.

[hannibal]

ok, IMO , i think 2 player co-operative pilot and gunner RULZ !

man, it would be uber L33t if DCS:Apache was capabale with the cooperative play feature in a multi-play environment....

 

2x players in one apache...

2+ apache against cpu generated missions, or against player controlled Ka50's

[amalahama]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's an FMC?

 

Flight managament computer:

 

 

Airliners use it for calculating the most efficients trayectories. Normaly, it's coupled with the INS. I think A-10 has one too.

 

Regards!!

[AlphaOneSix]

Flight managament computer

 

 

Ahh thanks. These show up in helicopters a lot, too, but we always call them CDU's (Computer Display Unit). From the description, it's similar (identical?) to an FMC. Operation of the AH-64A CDU can be found in chapter 3.15 of the AH-64A operator's manual, which can be found online here and there. For reference, the manual is TM 1-1520-238-10.

[Shaman]

Wow! I just woke up. I have had a very long dream that I was actually in a skin of AH-64 pilot, and my new co-pilot (replacement) was a woman. I have had a trouble with her at very beginning and was quite harsh in my language, but then later apologized her in the mess hall... things got better

that is for short..

oh.. if you ask where we were flying? - Balkans

No live rounds were fired - we were peace keeping

 

ED please bring AH-64 to DCS - ASAP! It's great fun, we need to have a 2-seater.

[- Piloto da Morte -]

Wow! I just woke up. I have had a very long dream that I was actually in a skin of AH-64 pilot, and my new co-pilot (replacement) was a woman. I have had a trouble with her at very beginning and was quite harsh in my language, but then later apologized her in the mess hall... things got better

that is for short..

oh.. if you ask where we were flying? - Balkans

No live rounds were fired - we were peace keeping

 

ED please bring AH-64 to DCS - ASAP! It's great fun, we need to have a 2-seater.

:thumbup:

[Avimimus]

Given your dream... will the Ah-64 include monica or monique or whatever her name was (in Chizh's video I think)?

[amalahama]

Given your dream... will the Ah-64 include monica or monique or whatever her name was (in Chizh's video I think)?

 

What?

 

Regards!!

[hannibal]

So I belive it will be a 2 player game. And at the level they are going for It will be a must have 2 players to be any fun. I plan on making a full 2 player pit in my spair room. I will buy 2 copys of the AH64 version to have a frend come over and fly with me.:joystick:

 

Umm, me two!!! (toooo)

I would purchase 2 copies just to do the co-op thing!!!

 

i know there are some of you out there that came out of the battlefield 2 helicopter TV missile pilot gunner dumb fire playing field, and have been yearning for something to fullfil that void ever since now that bf2 is old...

 

once again, 2 player co-op RULZ

 

[swepain]

once again, 2 player co-op RULZ

 

i sec that.. any game with co-op is on my wish list (almost) :thumbup:

[BadgerDK]

Ahh thanks. These show up in helicopters a lot, too, but we always call them CDU's (Computer Display Unit). From the description, it's similar (identical?) to an FMC. Operation of the AH-64A CDU can be found in chapter 3.15 of the AH-64A operator's manual, which can be found online here and there. For reference, the manual is TM 1-1520-238-10.

 

I thought these things were classified?! :book:

 

Anyhows, I have a haaaard wish for 2 seaters online with a real person as GIB. You could call me Goose...

[AlphaOneSix]

I thought these things were classified?! :book:

 

 

The AH-64A Operator's Manual is no longer classified and can be found online in various places. The AH-64D Operator's Manual IS still classified.

[Guest Su-35]

[ATTACH]15238[/ATTACH][ATTACH]15239[/ATTACH] AH-64A :megalol:

[CAT_101st]

what is that from?:noexpression:

[britgliderpilot]

what is that from?:noexpression:

 

Dunno where you might find a copy, but what it IS . . . is ED's AH-64A cockpit model ;)

[CYGAN apa.sq]

Impressive ....i'm curious how could be look like cockpit of hind in flyable version :music_whistling:

[CAT_101st]

Dunno where you might find a copy, but what it IS . . . is ED's AH-64A cockpit model ;)

 

Cool, still in need of work thoe.

[Esac_mirmidon]

The objective of DCS is an Apache AH-64A two seat multiplayer human controlled for sale as a DCS module?

 

If the answer is affirmative, what would happen if the lan-net code for this would be too hard to develope and DCS could not get a good result?

 

A single human controlled Apache with AI copilot only?

 

Or maybe the delay of the Apache project until this code could be finished? ( extended to any multicrew fighter or heli )

[EvilBivol-1]

The objective of DCS is an Apache AH-64A two seat multiplayer human controlled for sale as a DCS module?

Multiplayer and singleplayer, yes. That's the idea, anyway. The rest of the question is very speculative and I don't think we could answer it at this point. I personally don't foresee any net code problems, but what ED will decide to do in that case is impossible to tell right now. We still have to release the first module and then the A-10, which already gives us about a year of development before even focusing on the Apache.

 

To me, it seems the greater challenge is not the multiplayer code. Given two people, we can properly simulate two cockpits. The real problem, I think, is how will we simulate a two-person cockpit - with full realism and all the cockpit functions - when only one player is in control. Previous sims, even the "hardcore" types, had very simplified cockpit workloads, allowing one person to effectively control both cockpits. Our approach will probably have to be different, maybe relying on greater cockpit AI and/or greater player control over the cockpit AI via an extensive commands menu.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks EvilBivol-1.

 

Very interesting answer to a difficult question.

 

I am focused primary in human control Apache in multiplayer of both cockpits at the same time. If you dont foresee net code problems i will stay very very calm. 100% sure we could get this feature in the future.

 

About single control of both cockpits maybe an extended commands to control AI portion and cockpit jump posibility could be the solution. All depends in my oppinion about the growing capabilities of inteligence in the AI side. ( if the AI may do this ¡¡ ).

[Feuerfalke]

Janes AH-64 Korea and Longbow were the first multiplayer-games I ever played and we literally spent hundrets of hours in one chopper. Seeing even the A modell in a detailed sim like BlackShark sounds really awesome.

 

StormOfWar:Battle Of Britain from 1C is going to have the option to join crew-stations on multi-crewed planes on dogfight and coop-servers even inflight if the pilot permitts it. To have something similar in DCS would be very attractive even for those, who are interested in flightsims, but would like to start out as a passenger. :thumbup:

[CAT_101st]

Do I here AC-130 :music_whistling:

[Weta43]

To me, it seems the greater challenge is not the multiplayer code. Given two people, we can properly simulate two cockpits. The real problem, I think, is how will we simulate a two-person cockpit - with full realism and all the cockpit functions - when only one player is in control. Previous sims, even the "hardcore" types, had very simplified cockpit workloads, allowing one person to effectively control both cockpits. Our approach will probably have to be different, maybe relying on greater cockpit AI and/or greater player control over the cockpit AI via an extensive commands menu.

My un-thought through ideas - :-)

Maybe I'm mis-understanding your post & introducing a distinction that you are taking for granted, but aren't you approaching it slightly askew in thinking that there has to be a way for a single aircraft to be controlled by 2 people, or one in the back, or one in the front?

In LO.FC, if an AI is flying along, you can ALT+J into the plane, the plane continues to fly, you take control. A new entity is created in-game, occupying the same space & with the same trajectory, model shape, dameage etc as the previous AI entity.

If you ALT+J again, the AI entity re-appears.

If there were:

 

a dual control model where players control all aspects of flight.

 

a full AFM model with player pilot & AI controlling weapons / targeting systems with commands from player to the AI weapons controller through the commands menu.

 

a fully 'AI' piloted version that has the AI 'simplified AFM' & has the player controling the weapons systems etc with commands from player to the pilot through the commands menu

 

& the player jumps between the last two as they would jump from plane to plane in LO.

 

Conceptualising it as 3 separate classes of craft seems to me to make the individual problems simpler ...

[EvilBivol-1]

I think we are on the same page conceptually. I imagine the player will be able to occupy either cockpit at any point in flight and the AI will occupy the other, performing duties as commanded by the player.

 

The challenge I see is not conceptual, but practical - i.e. actually putting the concept into code. The difference between 'jumping' into an AI jet in FC and a future DCS Apache is the fully modeled cockpit functionality. For the Apache, the AI will probably have to be coded to actually flip all of the necessary switches when commanded to do one thing or another. For example, in Black Shark, you can 'auto-start' a cold Ka-50 with a cheat key. The program will then go through all of the switches automatically. In the case of the Apache AI, this would probably have to be done for all of the commanded functions, which could be many and in different combinations.

 

On the other hand, it's possible there will simply be a standard cockpit setting anytime the player enters the pit. Seems a lot simpler than the above. :D

 

There is also the problem of the command interface. If your hands are busy holding the HOTAS, which they typically are when flying the chopper, it will be difficult to constantly reach for the keyboard to go through the commands. Perhaps a 'point and click' interface is better, where the player can identify points on the terrain using the mouse, TrackIR, targeting systems, or simply by looking and then navigate a menu with the mouse or joystick hat to command the AI to do one thing or another. Sort of like this.

 

Again, the concept itself is easy and has been done in previous sims, where the player could occupy either cockpit. However, all of them had reduced cockpit workload, because the cockpit itself was not interactive.

 

By the way, I'm only thinking out loud here, not as an ED representative. I don't know what they may or may not have planned and all of the above may not even be remotely close to what actually happens. In any case, for now they are focused on the Ka-50 and A-10.