Firing Multiple Phoenix At Same Target Before First One Hits?

[Bearfoot]

So, is there something preventing this?

 

Situation: Single bandit on TWS, in optimum firing zone for AIM-154 (flashing symbol on radar). OK, Fox 3 -- AIM-154 goes off the rail, and the countdown begins. After a bit, I see target maneuvering, and I figure I am going to give him another Phoenix to worry about (hey, virtual missiles are cheap). Still on TWS, clear contact, no issue. Press release and hold .... and nothing. Just cannot get the missile to launch. It appears that until the previous missile headed his way ends its run, I cannot send another Phoenix his way.

 

Is this expected behavior? Is there any way around it? (Of course, I am sure I am going to get some advice about why I should not want to do this, and what I should do instead, and how it's probably better to etc. etc. Not going to say no to all of that, but I really would like to know if I am missing something about being able to launch multiple Phoenix at the same target a few mins apart).

[near_blind]

So, is there something preventing this?

 

Situation: Single bandit on TWS, in optimum firing zone for AIM-154 (flashing symbol on radar). OK, Fox 3 -- AIM-154 goes off the rail, and the countdown begins. After a bit, I see target maneuvering, and I figure I am going to give him another Phoenix to worry about (hey, virtual missiles are cheap). Still on TWS, clear contact, no issue. Press release and hold .... and nothing. Just cannot get the missile to launch. It appears that until the previous missile headed his way ends its run, I cannot send another Phoenix his way.

 

Is this expected behavior? Is there any way around it? (Of course, I am sure I am going to get some advice about why I should not want to do this, and what I should do instead, and how it's probably better to etc. etc. Not going to say no to all of that, but I really would like to know if I am missing something about being able to launch multiple Phoenix at the same target a few mins apart).

 

Remember the AWG-9 In general, and TWS in specific were designed to counter mass numbers of bombers and cruise missiles, killing as many as possible as quickly as possible before they can get past the aircraft.

 

The simple answer is the system is intentionally designed to prevent what you're trying to do so that in the confusion of a massed missile attack, precious Phoenixes don't get wasted on the same target.

 

If you wanna doubletap, go STT.

[Motomouse]

You also drive 4 Porsche Carrera GT down the cliffs of dover in parallel?

[Golo]

Does not matter what the system was designed to to, what matters is what it can do.

You can launch as many missiles as you want on single target in TWS, just make sure you have your intended target hooked on TID and press next launch. That should give you priority target 1 next to the contact again instead of TTG, after which you can launch second one, or third, or ...

Edited June 23, 2020 by Golo

[Bearfoot]

Remember the AWG-9 In general, and TWS in specific were designed to counter mass numbers of bombers and cruise missiles, killing as many as possible as quickly as possible before they can get past the aircraft.

 

The simple answer is the system is intentionally designed to prevent what you're trying to do so that in the confusion of a massed missile attack, precious Phoenixes don't get wasted on the same target.

 

If you wanna doubletap, go STT.

 

Thanks. The AWG-9/AIM-154/F-14 system was designed for many things. Dealing with the "Kamikaze Swarm" was certainly one of them. It is a common internet myth, however, that this was the only goal. From the very outset, air superiority --- in all its forms, against any and all hostiles --- was also an equally important goal. The F-14 was not just a dumb sledgehammer to by used to clumsily swat down clouds of flies. It could, and was designed to be, used as a surgical instrument as well, as well as everything in between.

[Bearfoot]

You also drive 4 Porsche Carrera GT down the cliffs of dover in parallel?

 

No idea what this means. But if it takes 4 Phoenixes to take down a threat, then yes, I will use 4 Phoenixes rather than twaddle my thumbs meditating on the cliffs of Dover.

[Bearfoot]

Does not matter what the system was designed to to, what matters is what it can do.

You can launch as many missiles as you want on single target in TWS, just make sure you have your intended target hooked on TID and press next launch. That should give you priority target 1 next to the contact again instead of TTG, after which you can launch second one, or third, or ...

 

Thanks. Can this be done from the pilot seat if there is no human RIO (i.e., through Jester)?

[Golo]

Thanks. Can this be done from the pilot seat if there is no human RIO (i.e., through Jester)?

 

 

Single player by switching seats, and multi player with human RIO only.

I am not aware of how to do it with Jester in MP, his commands are very limited.

[Bearfoot]

Single player by switching seats, and multi player with human RIO only.

I am not aware of how to do it with Jester in MP, his commands are very limited.

 

Ah, I see.

 

If Heatblur gave us a "Next Launch" Jester command, would this allow it the procedure to be executed in a self-contained way (i.e. no seat switching) by the pilot in either SP/MP? That is, is "Next :Launch" the only thing needed?

[near_blind]

Thanks. The AWG-9/AIM-154/F-14 system was designed for many things. Dealing with the "Kamikaze Swarm" was certainly one of them. It is a common internet myth, however, that this was the only goal. From the very outset, air superiority --- in all its forms, against any and all hostiles --- was also an equally important goal.

 

Which is why you have the pulse modes and Sparrows, at least according to the original design documents. I'll save the long answer and say while it wasn't their primary design consideration, the Pulse Doppler AWG-9 modes and AIM-54 can absolutely deal with fighters, and it's a testament to the engineers at Hughes that a radar set from the 60s is as capable as it is given the technology underpinning those modes.

 

I can confirm that you can successfully override the launch timer with the next launch button with minimal strangeness.

[Bearfoot]

Which is why you have the pulse modes and Sparrows, at least according to the original design documents. I'll save the long answer and say while it wasn't their primary design consideration, the Pulse Doppler AWG-9 modes and AIM-54 can absolutely deal with fighters, and it's a testament to the engineers at Hughes that a radar set from the 60s is as capable as it is given the technology underpinning those modes.

 

I can confirm that you can successfully override the launch timer with the next launch button with minimal strangeness.

 

Thanks. I've asked Heatblur to give the poor lonely pilot-without-a-human-AI an option to command Jester to "Next Launch" here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4398690#post4398690

[Motomouse]

Porsche Carrera GT and Phoenix are both around 500.000 bucks :-)

 

You have to care for the simmed tax payers.

[Bearfoot]

Porsche Carrera GT and Phoenix are both around 500.000 bucks :-)

 

You have to care for the simmed tax payers.

 

Yes, but a Tomcat costs $19.2 million dollars. It would be shame to lose a 20 million dollar Tomcat to a $100K R-27 missile because we got all scroogey about launching a $500K AIM-154.

 

Also, given the cost-per-hour of flying a tomcat, it would be shame to waste all of that money if we skimped on a missile and the Tomcat failed in its job. Especially if it means that the 37.3 BILLION dollar carrier ends up getting scratched in the mean time.

 

Anyway, either way, when ED puts out "DCS: House Committee on Budget Appropriations" and "DCS: DoD Fiscal Year Planning", sure, we can start taking into account the cost of firing the ordnance vs the cost of not. Until then, I'm going to consider it a sad day if I come back to land with any weapons on the pylons ...

 

Especially if the bandit gets away because I did not fire.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Bearfoot

[Motomouse]

:-)

[Oceandar]

Just switch to PAL mode momentarily then back to TWS. Assuming jester can detect that bandit again then you can launch your second Phoenix.

[captain_dalan]

Just switch to PAL mode momentarily then back to TWS. Assuming jester can detect that bandit again then you can launch your second Phoenix.

 

That would mean ditching support for the first missile though

[mattag08]

Use STT

[draconus]

That would mean ditching support for the first missile though

 

But can do it safely when less than 15s TTI.

[captain_dalan]

But can do it safely when less than 15s TTI.

 

True.