Autopilot or Level flight option at WW2 aircraft

[SharpeXB]

DCS is certainly unique among games for how it’s players continually cry and complain for help with everything. To the point where they just want to watch the game play itself. They want the aircraft to start themselves, refuel themselves, fly themselves. Why do you people bother with DCS at all?

All games involve difficulty. The majority of players find difficulty to be challenging and engaging. DCS seems to have players who are forcing themselves to play a game that they don’t have the aptitude or dedication for, yet continue and complain. Nobody is forcing you to play DCS guys, if this isn’t your thing that’s ok. If you play any game, adapt yourself to the game and how it is because the game isn’t likely to change just for you. 
 

Amazing that this topic can go on for three pages. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

The only amazing thing here is that you can't get around the fact people have different opinion than you. Shocking LOL.

Perhaps if this feature gets added, the game simply will not be for you then.

Sent using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

The only amazing thing here is that you can't get around the fact people have different opinion than you. Shocking LOL.

Perhaps if this feature gets added, the game simply will not be for you then.
 

It’s not so much an opinion as an assessment of what DCS is, according to their own philosophy

”Our dream is to offer the most authentic and realistic simulation of military aircraft, tanks, ground vehicles and ships possible.”

Such a direction precludes adding game-like features to the aircraft. 
 

I very much doubt you’ll ever see an update like:

DCS 3.0.0

 

DCS Spitfire IX

• Added artificial gamey level autopilot feature

EDs whole effort goes and should go towards making the most authentic and realistic simulation including upcoming features like better weather, damage models ATC, dynamic campaign etc. There’s no room IMO on this roadmap for an arcade game detour. 

 

[[DBS]TH0R]

Nothing arcade about this feature. As it was explained to you why it was requested. I guess it needs to be done over and over, as usual.

DCS is still a game, no matter how you look at it. And adding this feature will not suddenly turn it into something else, especially if it is an option that people can turn on and off - like so many other already built in assists.

Sent using Tapatalk

[rkk01]

The problem seems to be a contingent of misinformed / hard of understanding users that are unable to differentiate between difficulty and realism - and get a buzz out of forcing their nonsense on others...

For clarity, I don’t want an autopilot if it wasn’t in the prototype, unlike @SharpeXB who in several posts has suggested having functions that weren’t on the prototype Luftwaffe aircraft, while criticising others in the most childlike fashion possible (i.e. stop telling others to learn how to trim their aircraft when you don’t even know that those aircraft don’t have a full set of trim adjustments)

 

[rkk01]

Realism and difficulty can be bedfellows, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that they are...

 

I think that the WW2 setting exposes some of the most embedded areas where DCS does fail in achieving realism... A few examples:

 

- AI AAA fire and aerial gunnery (eg B17 air gunners etc) are way too effective.  Radar control of AA fire did develop towards the end of the war, but in DCS every gunner knows where you are, and has range and elevation dialled in.  Most RL gunners would be using Mk I eyeball for spotting and gun laying 

- concentrating on the late war period exacerbates this “unrealism”... I recently flew a shipping strike mission against a “British” merchant ship off “Malta” and was shocked at the barrage of accurate AAA. I decided to open the ship model in Encyclopaedia and almost fell off my chair at the amount of AAA - much more than you would see on any British warship, except perhaps a capital ship.  Late war British destroyers, eg War Emergency Classes, were equipped with 2x twin 20mm and one twin 40mm. The US prototype auxiliary might be prototypical for the Pacific or as a flak ship.  Most British merchants probably had a 4”HA and maybe a couple of single 20mm

 

I spent hours as a kid talking to relatives, one who was on destroyers, one a Bomber Command pilot. Their units never shot down anything... I suspect many units never did. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by rkk01

[PL_Harpoon]

Don't worry. SharpeXB suffers from a severe case of FlightSim OCD. As far as I know the cure is yet to be discovered.

[Wrcknbckr]

1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

Realism and difficulty can be bedfellows, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that they are...

 

I think that the WW2 setting exposes some of the most embedded areas where DCS does fail in achieving realism... A few examples:

 

- AI AAA fire and aerial gunnery (eg B17 air gunners etc) are way too effective.  Radar control of AA fire did develop towards the end of the war, but in DCS every gunner knows where you are, and has range and elevation dialled in.  Most RL gunners would be using Mk I eyeball for spotting and gun laying 

- concentrating on the late war period exacerbates this “unrealism”... I recently flew a shipping strike mission against a “British” merchant ship off “Malta” and was shocked at the barrage of accurate AAA. I decided to open the ship model in Encyclopaedia and almost fell off my chair at the amount of AAA - much more than you would see on any British warship, except perhaps a capital ship.  Late war British destroyers, eg War Emergency Classes, were equipped with 2x twin 20mm and one twin 40mm. The US prototype auxiliary might be prototypical for the Pacific or as a flak ship.  Most British merchants probably had a 4”HA and maybe a couple of single 20mm

 

I spent hours as a kid talking to relatives, one who was on destroyers, one a Bomber Command pilot. Their units never shot down anything... I suspect many units never did. 

 

 

For a moment there I thought you had an argument along the lines of 'DCS has merchant ships equipped with laser guided rockets, so why should we not allow autopilots on WWII aircraft that never had one'. 

 

Anyway, I think that pointing out these flaws in the modelling have a much, much bigger chance of being implemented than fantasy devices on an aircraft, and so it should.

 

 

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Nothing arcade about this feature. As it was explained to you why it was requested. 

It’s definitely an “arcade” feature since it’s a function that these real aircraft didn’t have. And no, there’s not a logical reason to need it. Just because noob players can’t understand the trim controls? And auto level is just about useless in any of the longer DLC campaign missions as well since there is a vertical profile to just about all the flight plans. And using auto level in multiplayer would be suicidal. 

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, rkk01 said:

(i.e. stop telling others to learn how to trim their aircraft when you don’t even know that those aircraft don’t have a full set of trim adjustments)

 

Ok I’m sure we all know this but the WWII German aircraft in DCS did indeed have aileron trim just not adjustable by the pilot in flight. Their trim tabs were set on the ground. So a realistic sim solution would be to allow you to set this in the mission editor or via the Ground Crew menu but not to add an artificial auto-level. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

Triggered much? How on Earth does asking for an option that would be optional to begin with has any effect on how you enjoy your time within DCS?

Your comment on MP is puzzling, at best, if not funny. In SP there is an option to pause the game.

It's not we're asking for a super complex feature that would take long time to implement. So that argument is also futile.

Sent using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

37 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Your comment on MP is puzzling, at best, if not funny. In

Auto level in MP? Haha that’s a laugh. I hope you like seeing your plane explode 

[SharpeXB]

41 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

It's not we're asking for a super complex feature that would take long time to implement.

Everything is a complex feature that takes a long time to implement. 

[razo+r]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Auto level in MP? Haha that’s a laugh. I hope you like seeing your plane explode 

 

How does a ferry flight make your plane explode?

 

Quote

And auto level is just about useless in any of the longer DLC campaign missions as well since there is a vertical profile to just about all the flight plans. And using auto level in multiplayer would be suicidal. 

 

And even with vertical component in your flight profile, unless you are training how to ascend and descend, most of the flight is still conducted on a flight level. Altitude changes are a minority of the flight, dogfighting obviously excluded in this.

 

And using autolevel in multiplayer is not suicidal. It could be used for the long transition flight from the airfield to the combat zone. If you use it in the combat zone, then that's entirely up to you.

 

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, razo+r said:

And using autolevel in multiplayer is not suicidal. It could be used for the long transition flight from the airfield to the combat zone. 

I don’t play much DCS WWII MP but in that other WWII game this is exactly where the enemy will be waiting for you. Your flight will be over in 10 minutes and you’ll be watching a 3rd person view of your plane exploding. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

You're making a fool out of yourself Sharpe, without even knowing. Auto level is very often used in MP when you're flying en route to target and back, in enemy free area. At minimum, it serves as a pause to check the map and type in the chat. Also, we use it for formation flying in large bomber groups (mostly lead position) since when flying bombers you need to do 3 tasks at the same time which were often done by different crew members (piloting, navigation and level bombing).

For this reason, and others already described here, it is a common feature in almost every WWII flight sim.

Having a simple function to keep your wings level isn't the same as designing and coding a full blown autopilot. No one here is buying that.

EDIT: Thus it is especially useful for MP with planes that didn't have trim for all axes.

Sent using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Also, we use it for formation flying in large bomber groups (mostly lead position) since when flying bombers you need to do 3 tasks at the same time which were often done by different crew members (piloting, navigation and level bombing).

WWII Bombers probably had autopilots. DCS doesn’t have flyable bombers. So you’re talking about another game which isn’t relevant to DCS

[[DBS]TH0R]

The benefits of having auto level even if the plane didn't have it, for WWII birds, is more than evident.

Comment about flying bombers is there just to show experience with MP, of which I have more than plenty.

Sent using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

22 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

The benefits of having auto level even if the plane didn't have it, for WWII birds, is more than evident.
 

It doesn’t matter if it’s a “benefit”. It’s not a realistic feature for a simulation like DCS. A2A radar would be a benefit too but these DCS WWII fighters didn’t have that either. 

[razo+r]

We have game mode, communication assistant, rudder assistant, take off assistant, cockpit assistant, might as well complete the package and add level flight assistant to it.

 

Those who don't want it, don't have to use it, and can be disabled in the mission settings like usual.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, razo+r said:

We have game mode, communication assistant, rudder assistant, take off assistant, cockpit assistant, might as well complete the package and add level flight assistant to it.

And those are all a big waste of effort, the type of player who wants features like those is on War Thunder or Ace Combat.  

DCS doesn’t need any more helpers 

Yet even those are all just simplifications of features which the aircraft actually have. Not adding something artificial that they don’t. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

Cherry picking now? IL-2 Great Battles has this feature. And that tile is far from War Thunder and Ace Combat.

Yes it isn't completely realistic, but so isn't typing into a chat during MP when you're flying. E.g. when you want to call in for help, report enemies on the map, say hi to a friend etc... Since we don't all have radios and VOIP, having this feature in MP is s godsent when using chat or checking the map.

Your disagreement with this wish list won't make it go away. Especially with complete absence of any good arguments other than "I don't want it in this game".


Looks like we're going for 10 pages.

Sent using Tapatalk

[BIGNEWY]

Please understand everyone is allowed to have an opinion, and treat everyone with respect, even if we dont agree. 

 

Pass your thoughts and opinions, if someone doesn't agree it is not a problem. 

 

We have no plans to add a auto pilot to aircraft that did not use it. We are actually considering removing game flight and avionics, it is not used very often and creates more problems than it solves. 

 

thank you

 

 

[Mogster]

5 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Cherry picking now? IL-2 Great Battles has this feature. And that tile is far from War Thunder and Ace Combat.

Yes it isn't completely realistic, but so isn't typing into a chat during MP when you're flying. E.g. when you want to call in for help, report enemies on the map, say hi to a friend etc... Since we don't all have radios and VOIP, having this feature in MP is s godsent when using chat or checking the map.

Your disagreement with this wish list won't make it go away. Especially with complete absence of any good arguments other than "I don't want it in this game".


Looks like we're going for 10 pages.

Sent using Tapatalk








 

In the 777 products at least the “autopilot” is the AI taking over control of the aircraft when you request it. ROF also has a time compress feature,  the AI flies you plane then. You can compress a long flight into the action area.

 

It is a useful feature for people that don’t have hours to expend flying realistic missions but don’t want to air start every time.

[Buzzles]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please understand everyone is allowed to have an opinion, and treat everyone with respect, even if we dont agree. 

 

Pass your thoughts and opinions, if someone doesn't agree it is not a problem. 

 

We have no plans to add a auto pilot to aircraft that did not use it. We are actually considering removing game flight and avionics, it is not used very often and creates more problems than it solves. 

 

thank you

 

 

Excellent news on potentially removing 'game' mode and avionics, if only for reducing the list in the input menu

Can you ask if the 'take off assist' option can be removed too? It's pretty telling when all of Chuck's guides and the common view on the forums is to turn it off as it's a hiderance not a helper.