announced DCS MiG-29A

[Hodo]

9 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Personally I think you're right, but ED has "upgraded" versions in the past too. Slim chance IMO but It would fit better with the more modern western stuff. 

Which is why I am a huge fan of just putting out aircraft of the same era.  An F-16 Block 50 vs a MiG-29a is like taking a F-22 vs a F-100 Super Sabre.   It isn't even a close match.  

 

Now a F-16A vs the MiG-29A that is a realistic match.  As they were both 1970-80s model fighters.

 

[Kev2go]

22 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Personally I think you're right, but ED has "upgraded" versions in the past too. Slim chance IMO but It would fit better with the more modern western stuff. 

 

yea i was thinking they could do a soviet vanilla Mig29A but also throw in post cold war polish 9.12A mig  which has the AN/ASN 175 GPS  added on. Since having a a crappy INS with only  3 waypoints would suck.

 

That is assuming they can't find  concrete documentation for a more intensely modernized export version of the 9.12

 

 

 

 

Dont have a Polish Mig manual but you can see how this particular GPS operates from  the 1988 UH1H Manual ( 1999 revision)  

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kev2go

[Volator]

2 hours ago, Kev2go said:

Since having a a crappy INS with only  3 waypoints would suck

I think it's cool.

[TotenDead]

3 часа назад, Kev2go сказал:

 

yea i was thinking they could do a regular vanilla Mig29A

Hopefully they'll make MiG-29, not 29A

3 часа назад, Kev2go сказал:

Since having a a crappy INS with only  3 waypoints would suck.

Why would you need more waypoints in a short ranged fighter? 

[Northstar98]

Yeah, the Tomcat only has 3 navigation waypoints too, of course you can use the other 3-4 as navigation waypoints as well but it's not that big of a deal with the 3, you just need to put a little more thought into where you put them.

 

Besides wouldn't the MiG-29 have RSBN (TACAN/ILS equivalent)? Or at least ARK (NDB equivalent)?

 

EDIT: Can't see an RSBN/PRMG control panel inside the FC3 9.12 MiG-29, but there is ARK though only preset channels - looks like the same panel as in the Yak-52 which has 10 channels (1-4 + P, inner and outer (I think known as main and back-up) - but can't find the inner/outer switch).

Edited February 18, 2021 by Northstar98

[lmp]

40 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Besides wouldn't the MiG-29 have RSBN (TACAN/ILS equivalent)? Or at least ARK (NDB equivalent)?

 

It has both RSBN and an ADF.

[Seaeagle]

8 hours ago, Kev2go said:

yea i was thinking they could do a regular vanilla Mig29A but also throw in post cold war polish 9.12A mig  which has the AN/ASN 175 GPS  added on. Since having a a crappy INS with only  3 waypoints would suck.

Yeah a good suggestion.

 

Personally I would hate for ED to do some obscure national modified 9.12A instead of the original Soviet 9.12. Its never going to be remotely on par with the current mid-2000's bluefor jets anyway and the justification for a "baseline" MiG-29 would exactly be  that the original version provides for "historical" scenarios.......I would also have much prefered this approach for the Hornet and Viper(whether 80'ies or 90'ies versions) instead of the post production modified ones.

 

But then there is already a "MiG-29G" in the sim and since this has long since been transfered to the Polish airforce and IIRC now "sports" the very navigation unit in your photos, it would seem to provide a good basis for what you are suggesting.

 

 

8 hours ago, Kev2go said:

That is assuming they can't find  concrete documentation for a more intensely modernized export version of the 9.12

That would have to be something like the "budget" version of the MiG-29SMT(9.18) - other 9.12 modifications have more or less the same nature as the Polish MiG-29s, albeit a few with guided(optical) A/G munitions.

 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

EDIT: Can't see an RSBN/PRMG control panel inside the FC3 9.12 MiG-29, but there is ARK though only preset channels - looks like the same panel as in the Yak-52 which has 10 channels (1-4 + P, inner and outer (I think known as main and back-up) - but can't find the inner/outer switch).

The ARK is the same as in MiG-21. Soviets were big on parts commonality, unless there was a good reason to do otherwise, a given instrument was used across as many designs as possible. That both made pilot retraining easier and eased the logistical burden, in line with Soviet experience in WWII. That's also why Soviets had simpler, somewhat crocky, but robust solutions in place, as opposed to Western planes' "latest, greatest, most expensive" way of doing avionics.

 

[Northstar98]

22 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The ARK is the same as in MiG-21. Soviets were big on parts commonality, unless there was a good reason to do otherwise, a given instrument was used across as many designs as possible. That both made pilot retraining easier and eased the logistical burden, in line with Soviet experience in WWII. That's also why Soviets had simpler, somewhat crocky, but robust solutions in place, as opposed to Western planes' "latest, greatest, most expensive" way of doing avionics.

 

Well, the control panel in the FC3 one is certainly different to the MiG-21bis - it looks identical to the one in the Yak-52, not sure about the DF equipment itself, but as far as the control panel goes, it's identical to the one in the Yak-52.

[Dragon1-1]

It seems that MiG-29 has ARK-15M and MiG-21 that we have has ARK-10. They are pretty similar in function, though. I couldn't find the exact list of differences, but the two systems are closely related.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Dragon1-1

[Seaeagle]

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Besides wouldn't the MiG-29 have RSBN (TACAN/ILS equivalent)? Or at least ARK (NDB equivalent)?

As Imp said, it has both.

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

EDIT: Can't see an RSBN/PRMG control panel inside the FC3 9.12 MiG-29...

Look at the navigation panel.

 

 

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Seaeagle said:

As Imp said, it has both.

Look at the navigation panel.

 

 

Ah, cheers, I'll admit I was only trying to look for the control panel I recognise from the L-39, MiG-21 and Su-25, my bad.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Northstar98

[Seaeagle]

2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Ah, cheers, I'd admit I was only trying to look for the control panel I recognise from the L-39, MiG-21 and Su-25. 

NP :)

[killkenny1]

21 hours ago, Hodo said:

I want MIG-29SMU... that would be nice...

 

What is SMU? I never heard of it...

There were prototypes of SM, from what I can see only a handfull of airframes. And later итсмодернизатион то SMT.

Or are you referring to MU1/2 airframes?

[Kev2go]

3 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

 

 

 

That would have to be something like the "budget" version of the MiG-29SMT(9.18) - other 9.12 modifications have more or less the same nature as the Polish MiG-29s, albeit a few with guided(optical) A/G munitions.

 

 

you mean something like this? some of the polish migs also have a Up front control display and a MFD

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

5 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Yeah, the Tomcat only has 3 navigation waypoints too,

 

and that is its the tomcats greatest weak point, especially as it has to be programmed manually ( no data cartridge) , and once  you get too much drift cat cant update INS like you could in other teen fighters in a pre GPS era by using A/G radar to update the INS. That being said thanks to  Lantirn pod having self contained GPS, Tomcat Drivers, will have an accurate coordinate position of where they are. 

 

Look how many waypoints on can have with an aircraft like Viggen, which is generation 3. For example which went into operation in the 1970s. can hold 9, and you dont have to manually program your entire navigation profile due to data cartridge.

 

Again this is just a suggeestion that ED could do 2 Mig29 derivatives in 1 module. Polish Mig29A is a "mig29G" with GPS added in at some point. Not a big difference, to model a 2nd variant.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

9 hours ago, TotenDead said:

 

Why would you need more waypoints in a short ranged fighter? 

 

Seems like the Poles thought otherwise.....

 

Although im sure you knov Having an added on GPS module isn't just " oh look i can have more waypoints"

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kev2go

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, killkenny1 said:

 

What is SMU? I never heard of it...

There were prototypes of SM, from what I can see only a handfull of airframes. And later итсмодернизатион то SMT.

Or are you referring to MU1/2 airframes?

The SMU is the MiG-29SM Upgrade by the Ukrainian Airforce.  It is basically the MiG-29S that has been upgraded in nation to the multi-role specifications.  It allows the Ukrainian MiG-29S to perform the multi-role light fighter role.  Like the F-16 and F-18.  

 

 

[Seaeagle]

21 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

you mean something like this? some of the polish migs also have a Up front control display and a MFD

Yes for example - but my point was that this type of modification is all about "practicality"(often in relation to NATO compliance) and rarely involves any changes to the WCS. I don't know what you meant by "intensely modernized", but in my book this would involve something along the lines of F-16A to F-16AM - for the MiG-29 that would be an MiG-29SMT or the Indian MiG-29UPG...i.e. an actual multirole upgrade.

[Kev2go]

10 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Yes for example - but my point was that this type of modification is all about "practicality"(often in relation to NATO compliance) and rarely involves any changes to the WCS. I don't know what you meant by "intensely modernized", but in my book this would involve something along the lines of F-16A to F-16AM - for the MiG-29 that would be an MiG-29SMT or the Indian MiG-29UPG...i.e. an actual multirole upgrade.

In the sense  example is more was more noticeably  modernized relative to the other example provided. Which really was just a Mig29G with GPS. bolted in above Mig29's HUD repeater. IM sure adding in a MFD and Up front controller has to do more than just making it nato compliant., since thats what the Luftwaffe "MIg29G" already achieved, since from what i read it new databus, new mission computer, new navigation suite including a Moving map capability on the MFD

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kev2go

[Seaeagle]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The SMU is the MiG-29SM Upgrade by the Ukrainian Airforce.  It is basically the MiG-29S that has been upgraded in nation to the multi-role specifications.  It allows the Ukrainian MiG-29S to perform the multi-role light fighter role.  Like the F-16 and F-18.  

 

 

Why not an -SMT then - its much better known and I doubt you would have an easier time getting documentation for the Ukrainian upgrade.

Just now, Kev2go said:

That example is more significantly modernized relative to the other example which really was just a Mig29G with GPS. bolted in above Mig29's HUD repeater

Yes I get what you are saying and as such the other one would obviously be easier to make.

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Why not an -SMT then - its much better known and I doubt you would have an easier time getting documentation for the Ukrainian upgrade.

Yes I get what you are saying and as such the other one would obviously be easier to make.

I am looking outside of Russia for the information.  Due to EDs restrictions.

[Seaeagle]

11 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

In the sense  example is more was more noticeably  modernized relative to the other example provided. Which really was just a Mig29G with GPS. bolted in above Mig29's HUD repeater. IM sure adding in a MFD and Up front controller has to do more than just making it nato compliant., since thats what the Luftwaffe "MIg29G" already achieved, since from what i read it new databus, new mission computer, new navigation suite including a Moving map capability on the MFD

 

Yes it obviously offers more than just a GPS nav device, but then the Luftwaffe modifications were also just the bare minimum - there are plenty of accounts from Luftwaffe pilots stating the various limitations they faced when operating the aircraft under NATO tactics. But then I suspect it was deliberate - i.e. on behalf of NATO to assess the capability of the MiG-29 in its most common form at the time(most likely adversary scenario). 

19 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I am looking outside of Russia for the information.  Due to EDs restrictions.

I don't know about that - the SMT is also exported. Anyway, I think there is a tendency on this forum to think that Russia is the only country to restrict information on its military :) .

[killkenny1]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

The SMU is the MiG-29SM Upgrade by the Ukrainian Airforce.  It is basically the MiG-29S that has been upgraded in nation to the multi-role specifications.  It allows the Ukrainian MiG-29S to perform the multi-role light fighter role.  Like the F-16 and F-18.  

 

 

 

That's MU1/2, not SMU.

[Mars Exulte]

51 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Anyway, I think there is a tendency on this forum to think that Russia is the only country to restrict information on its military

    Hehe, yeah, they mostly all do. Just a matter of degree.