[NO BUG] Shape of engine nozzles is wrong

[Viper33]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:51 PM, Cobra847 said:

This will be corrected.

4 years later...

[Raisuli]

43 minutes ago, Viper33 said:

4 years later...

...and I still haven't noticed a problem.  Too much time spent at the other end of the aircraft, I guess.  Sorry about that.

[Viper33]

1 minute ago, Raisuli said:

...and I still haven't noticed a problem.  Too much time spent at the other end of the aircraft, I guess.  Sorry about that.

Doesnt change the fact that its wrong. Maybe you also havent noticed the wrong nozzle position gauges in the 14B cockpit. Ignorance is bliss.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Viper33

[Raisuli]

1 minute ago, Viper33 said:

Doesnt change the fact that its wrong. Maybe you also havent noticed the wrong nozzle position gauges in the 14B cockpit. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Yes it is!  Particularly in games.  There's a FPS my Cow-orkers (yes, I spelled that correctly) play that implement all kinds of stupid things with ballistics that drive me nuts.  Just gotta ignore it when they talk me into playing with them; it just doesn't work like that out in the real world.  Here?  Sure.  Why not?

I don't pay attention to nozzle position in F-16s, F-18s, F-4s, F-5s...guess I'm a cow-orker when it comes to DCS 

[captain_dalan]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:12 AM, bkthunder said:

Great! 

Dude, that's an almost 4 years old post! 

[Viper33]

On 7/20/2024 at 2:03 PM, captain_dalan said:

Dude, that's an almost 4 years old post! 

But it will be fixed...as long as he said it, right? Right???

[RustBelt]

It was fixed for 4 years until you brought it back up. 

[Whistler_RIO]

I just wanted to add that this isnt just about the time and work it takes to do it, but also optimization.  If every single detail, even those barely perceptable, is modeled in 3D, that all takes memory and rendering and does subtly effect performance when you apply that kind of unneeded detail all over every single model in a simulation. more K-size to download and store, more data to load into memory and more triangles and shapes to render by your graphics card.

The idea isnt that a game-designer just makes up whatever they wish existed in a game and then developers optimize it, because that can never work (at least until the day comes when every single user has a much more powerful machine someday).  rather, the idea is that the game designer cleverly chooses whats important and decides on the value received in exchange for the footprint on system resources.

[draconus]

21 minutes ago, Whistler_RIO said:

unneeded detail

No, my friend, that is a wrong implementation, other older modules have it done properly and it doesn't cost any perceptible performance.

[Q3ark]

You guys crack me up. See if the number of rivets is correct too!

[draconus]

14 minutes ago, Q3ark said:

See if the number of rivets is correct too!

It is! We even have Heatblur Rivet Counting Squad for that, right @LanceCriminal86 ?

[Northstar98]

I really don't understand all the opposition to getting this corrected, I do not get it one bit the "I don't think errors should be fixed and the people bringing them up should be scoffed at" - it has to be up there for one of the most baffling takes I've seen here.

What exactly are you guys losing by having this corrected? How is this going to negatively impact your experience going forward? Isn't this game supposed to try and be as accurate as it can? Isn't this module supposed to be as accurate as it can? And if it is, why do you have a problem when it gets closer, even by a tiny bit, to being exactly that?

Fact is, the Tomcat is the only aircraft that has this issue, no other aircraft in DCS, including those that are both older and less detailed has this problem. The F-16 (with more-or-less the exact same nozzle) doesn't have this issue and the difference between them is obvious. It's the same with the rudders that clip through the vertical stabilisers when they're deflected because the axis they rotate around isn't properly aligned (also reported here) - I so far haven't noticed a single other aircraft in DCS that has the same problem. The Viggen has similar problems too - having weapons that clip through the landing gear doors (also reported here), again - can't say I've noticed a similar problem on any other module, only some of the really old (20+ years) AI aircraft have similar issues.

Edited July 31, 2024 by Northstar98

[LanceCriminal86]

4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

I really don't understand all the opposition to getting this corrected, I do not get it one bit the "I don't think errors should be fixed and the people bringing them up should be scoffed at" - it has to be up there for one of the most baffling takes I've seen here.

What exactly are you guys losing by having this corrected? How is this going to negatively impact your experience going forward? Isn't this game supposed to try and be as accurate as it can? Isn't this module supposed to be as accurate as it can? And if it is, why do you have a problem when it gets closer, even by a tiny bit, to being exactly that?

Fact is, the Tomcat is the only aircraft that has this issue, no other aircraft in DCS, including those that are both older and less detailed has this problem. The F-16 (with more-or-less the exact same nozzle) doesn't have this issue and the difference between them is obvious. It's the same with the rudders that clip through the vertical stabilisers when they're deflected because the axis they rotate around isn't aligned (also reported here) - I so far haven't noticed a single other aircraft in DCS that has the same problem. The Viggen has similar problems too - having weapons that clip through the landing gear doors (also reported here), again - can't say I've noticed a similar problem on any other module, only some of the really old (20+ years) AI aircraft have similar issues.

 

The issues come down to 1) how many manhours will it take to remodel/rework the nozzles and animations, and 2) will the fixes break anything. For the nozzles the likelihood of #2 is low, but there's also a whole bunch of other art stuff that either still needed to be added, needs to be done for the earlier jets, or also fixed like extraneous bits that don't belong on F-14A or B or things that were mirrored and shouldn't have been, needing to redo the engine nacelle panel lines and details.

Then there's things like the tails fix, that will quite literally break liveries. Personally I'd rather get the fix in, and then fix some tails but others have apparently become violently table flipping angry over the consideration. The problem there was that the Vstab itself somehow was rotated longitudinally a degree or two on its axis, that's what causes the alignment problems and results in the rudder clipping. More than the nozzles that's where the cost vs negative impact has to be balanced, and we have yet to get a decision on how it can be done without breaking every single livery out there. Rotate the stab back to where it should be, and now everything aligned across from stab to rudder will be crooked.