Honey, I developed FFB joystick (DIY)

[Roller25]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:45 PM, walmis said:

First release of device maintenance page for my FFB controller is ready! 
The controllers firmware will be upgrade'able over WebUSB.  I'll probably move away from desktop app in the future to full configuration over the web.

You can find it here:

https://vpforcecontrols.com/usb/rhino/

Supporting stuff is now done, now I finally can start prepping the DYI kits for shipping

Are you actually taking orders already?

[walmis]

13 minutes ago, Roller25 said:

Are you actually taking orders already?

Almost there actually, just figuring out logistics, packaging, shipping prices, etc. 

[VO101_MMaister]

19 hours ago, walmis said:

Almost there actually, just figuring out logistics, packaging, shipping prices, etc. 

Hi, what is the rated torque of the system you offer? 

[walmis]

1 hour ago, VO101_MMaister said:

Hi, what is the rated torque of the system you offer? 

The 57BLF03 motors give 0.066Nm/A at the shaft. I drive them at 25A max with active cooling, so that goes to about 1.5Nm. Haven't tested the saturation. But the torque goes quite linearly with current up to max.
One could use a Nema23 gearbox to increase the torque, such as: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002841759258.html [updated]

One benefit of these inrunner motors is the better heat dissipation at standstill, since their coils are on the outside and the whole body acts as a heatsink, in contrast with outrunner motors, which dissipate heat through the front mounting point and the motor bell with the magnets inhibit airflow to the coils.

Edited April 8, 2022 by walmis

[walmis]

Hey guys, first video is online:

 

[Thadiun Okona]

20 hours ago, walmis said:

Hey guys, first video is online:

 

Fantastic, can not wait. Surprisingly clear video covering a lot of general FF concepts along with specifics to your controller, especially impressive seeing as English is not your native tongue. Already downloaded the software and have messed with it a bit but this vid makes the scope of it clear.

I'm curious about the fans, I only remember seeing 2 wires, is there any way to control their speed?

Achievable torque with belt reduction (I don't recommend gear boxes, backlash of gears is undesirable)  is perfectly fine with 03 motors but curious, is there any reason the 04 version of the motors were not utilized?

[walmis]

37 minutes ago, Thadiun Okona said:

Fantastic, can not wait. Surprisingly clear video covering a lot of general FF concepts along with specifics to your controller, especially impressive seeing as English is not your native tongue. Already downloaded the software and have messed with it a bit but this vid makes the scope of it clear.

Thanks! Although I do lots of reading, listening and writing in English, my English tongue definitely needs some practice

37 minutes ago, Thadiun Okona said:

I'm curious about the fans, I only remember seeing 2 wires, is there any way to control their speed?

Yes, they are wired in parallel and the speed is controllable by hardware by modulating the voltage. ATM they are ON-OFF controlled with hysteresis - they start at >=50degC and shut off at <=45degC. If a need arises to change these parameters (perhaps like fan profiles in modern motherboards), I'll happily implement this in the future updates. 

37 minutes ago, Thadiun Okona said:

Achievable torque with belt reduction (I don't recommend gear boxes, backlash of gears is undesirable)  is perfectly fine with 03 motors but curious, is there any reason the 04 version of the motors were not utilized?

Yeah good point about the 57BLF04, the two reasons were: I was not able to find a reliable source and they are too big for my 'Rhino' FFB base. So I invested into the 57BLF03 ones.
There's actually another heavy-duty alternative: the 86BLF03. 2.3kg beasts, 1 Nm continuous and 5 Nm peak torque. Quite tempted to try them, but I'll need to spin another modification of the motor PCBs to accommodate those. 

[predator-nz]

Hi walmis,

 

just having a good read if you could or maybe implement the 86BLF03 into your PCB that would be great.

I

[VO101_MMaister]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:20 AM, walmis said:

The 57BLF03 motors give 0.066Nm/A at the shaft. I drive them at 25A max with active cooling, so that goes to about 1.5Nm. Haven't tested the saturation. But the torque goes quite linearly with current up to max.
One could use a Nema23 gearbox to increase the torque, such as: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002841759258.html [updated]

One benefit of these inrunner motors is the better heat dissipation at standstill, since their coils are on the outside and the whole body acts as a heatsink, in contrast with outrunner motors, which dissipate heat through the front mounting point and the motor bell with the magnets inhibit airflow to the coils.

 

Thank you. How much gearing is acceptable without risking a sloppy stick reaction in you opinion? What is the max RPM of the motors?

 

[walmis]

On 4/11/2022 at 2:51 PM, VO101_MMaister said:

Thank you. How much gearing is acceptable without risking a sloppy stick reaction in you opinion? What is the max RPM of the motors?

 

The motors are rated 3000rpm at 24V. I have used these with my first base, which has 1:24 ratio pulleys. Works just fine

Edited April 12, 2022 by walmis

[walmis]

Been researching how to improve the implementation of the Friction effect. Think I found a solution. This will be a solution to implement a Helo Collective for example without messing with complex mechanics.

 

[TomVR]

Consider down the line making a single axis kit, would be interesting to try making rudder pedals that can switch between anti-torque (no centering) or regular rudder pedals, maybe even having airspeed resistance changes for warbirds (you can feel your airspeed in the pedals!)

[walmis]

22 minutes ago, TomVR said:

Consider down the line making a single axis kit, would be interesting to try making rudder pedals that can switch between anti-torque (no centering) or regular rudder pedals, maybe even having airspeed resistance changes for warbirds (you can feel your airspeed in the pedals!)

I have this planned. It will be easy to disable X or Y axis and adjusting the feedback parameters as desired for the single axis!

[RealDCSpilot]

20 hours ago, TomVR said:

Consider down the line making a single axis kit, would be interesting to try making rudder pedals that can switch between anti-torque (no centering) or regular rudder pedals, maybe even having airspeed resistance changes for warbirds (you can feel your airspeed in the pedals!)

And trimmable anti-torque pedals for helicopters with resistance in the trimmed position... (!)

Edited April 22, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[walmis]

Hey guys, I've uploaded an album featuring RHINO FFB Base. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Do6Jr0T

[KAPTI]

Very nice. I'll tell you what though, I'm in the US where we reward idiots. They will stick their fingers in those belts and say it was your fault.

[lefuneste01]

5 hours ago, walmis said:

Hey guys, I've uploaded an album featuring RHINO FFB Base. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Do6Jr0T

I want the same !

But can we have feedback for DCS and il2 GB usage ?

[RealDCSpilot]

@walmisGorgeous!

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:30 AM, walmis said:

Hey guys, I've uploaded an album featuring RHINO FFB Base. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Do6Jr0T

Do you have plans to sell them?

[walmis]

22 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Do you have plans to sell them?

Yes, definitely!

On 4/11/2022 at 6:13 AM, predator-nz said:

just having a good read if you could or maybe implement the 86BLF03 into your PCB that would be great.

Got my hands on a few samples of 86BLF03 motors. Installed the servo drive. Works a treat. Happy to say I will be able to supply them.

Demo of the big boy in action with the 57BLF03 for scale: https://gfycat.com/unrulyentirebilby

[Thadiun Okona]

58 minutes ago, walmis said:

Yes, definitely!

Got my hands on a few samples of 86BLF03 motors. Installed the servo drive. Works a treat. Happy to say I will be able to supply them.

Demo of the big boy in action with the 57BLF03 for scale: https://gfycat.com/unrulyentirebilby

Oh my.. those look big enough to use for pedals or a monster warbird stick like VO101_MMaister has been itching to build since forever . How hard can they be driven with the  mosfets/psu arrangement on your drive board?

Unrelated but wondering if the 57BLF03 motors you use have a D shaft... I'm toying with the idea of using shaft-winding for power transmission vs belt drive since it can be made really compact even at high ratios. With a round shaft the native 8mm could be used on the drive end but if there's a flat a bigger hub with full round would be needed.

[jnr4817]

I’ll buy a rhino ffb

[walmis]

7 hours ago, Thadiun Okona said:

Oh my.. those look big enough to use for pedals or a monster warbird stick like VO101_MMaister has been itching to build since forever . How hard can they be driven with the  mosfets/psu arrangement on your drive board?

Unrelated but wondering if the 57BLF03 motors you use have a D shaft... I'm toying with the idea of using shaft-winding for power transmission vs belt drive since it can be made really compact even at high ratios. With a round shaft the native 8mm could be used on the drive end but if there's a flat a bigger hub with full round would be needed.

The servo drive can be driven up to 30-35A (the limitation is the current-sensing feedback path gets saturated with 1mOhm shunts, MOSFETS are rated up to 175A). 

But according to the motor datasheet, peak current is within the servo driver's current limitation. I'll need to test the real world performance. Maybe it's possible to push it more.

 

The 57BLF03 does indeed have a D shaft:

Can you elaborate more on "shaft-winding"? sounds interesting

[Lt_Jaeger]

3 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

I’ll buy a rhino ffb

This. 

 

Getting very interested too. 

[propeler]

6 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

I’ll buy a rhino ffb

Do not hurry! I prety sure that I know what the gimbal inside of it and I can say that it has one serios drawback. That type of gimbal when made from plastic simply can not be done stiff and rigid enouhg to handle high torque. Experiments of other guys here in the topic and my experience showed it. Thats why this:

was turned into this: