D4n Posted October 4, 2020 Posted October 4, 2020 Hi, it used to be that unless you were landed at an airfield, returning to spectators mid flight/death-spiral/ditched-in-a-field would score you a death. Currently, players can exploit PvP multiplayer by leaving the slot when they are about to get shot down by another player to avoid it to count as a death (or as a kill for the shooter). This is important for MP servers that export kill/loss pilot statistics data. Why was this system changed to how it is now? To reproduce: run the attached .miz, fly a few seconds, return to spectators, open scoreboard, still says "0" in the "loss" column.Fly-test.miz DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Mr. Big.Biggs Posted October 4, 2020 Posted October 4, 2020 Only person score matters to is the individual and they know if they Are dishonest. There are two kinds of people in this world. Cheaters and everyone else... I9 (5Ghz turbo)2080ti 64Gb 3200 ram. 3 drives. A sata 2tb storage and 2 M.2 drives. 1 is 1tb, 1 is 500gb. Valve Index, Virpil t50 cm2 stick, t50 base and v3 throttle w mini stick. MFG crosswind pedals.
D4n Posted October 4, 2020 Author Posted October 4, 2020 There are two kinds of people in this world. Cheaters and everyone else... and a big part of the "everyone else" group are those who are working on making better people out of the cheaters by turning them into the "everyone else"-people :) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
Yaga Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Leaving slot anytime you weren't stationary on the ground at a friendly airfield used to count a loss. Unless there's a good reason, I don't see any reason not to revert back to this system.
probad Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) muh score dont bother with the silly social engineering crap just call cheaters out for being cheats the old fashioned way Edited October 7, 2020 by probad
Yaga Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Sure. But it used to work just fine, and fixing it seems quite simple and straightforward. Unless there's an obvious reason not to that I'm missing.
Quadg Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 turning them into the "everyone else"-people society has been trying to end criminality for as long as there has been society.. going well isn't it :) My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
randomTOTEN Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 I agree, "muh score" Why should you get credit because somebody's internet cuts out? If they eject from the server you know what happened.
Adam Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) I can understand the frustration, and I can understand the desire to try and stop this from happening. If it's very simple to implement as an option I don't see any reason why not to have it as an option - and then the server admins can decide for themselves whether to use it or not, and us players can choose the servers that best suit what we want. (I just don't get this increasing mindset of people these days that if they don't have a problem with it - then everyone shouldn't have a problem with it and they shouldn't have an option available to them). Having options to suit our individual needs is one of the wonderful things about this life. That been said - I can see and appreciate the problem with it being implemented and unfairly causing issues for those who have crashes, dropout's, etc. My left of field recommendation is to join on servers that are well administrated. The best gaming servers I've ever been on (all games) are those that have very little tolerance for problem makers and cheaters. Where a kick is considered a warning and a ban comes quickly for those flouting the rules. I know that's not everyone's cuppa tea - but again, that's the beauty about having options and choices. :) My recommendation is to find a server that admin's like this. It shouldn't be too difficult. Lodge a complaint if you see it happening. Admin's with tacview storing info in the background can review patterns from users who do this and simply ban their UID. (UID, not name so they can't get around the issue by just changing a name). Having human intervention can mean that unfair bans aren't done to those who have packet losses, but repeat offenders are identified and dealt with. You'll probably find these servers are much more enjoyable to play on as well - you'll get much fewer deliberate team kills and it's just a better experience all over. :) I know it's not the same as having that option re-implemented and it'd be good to see this as an option anyway - but just an alternative solution to consider if you haven't already. Edited October 7, 2020 by Adam
Yaga Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) It's sort of surprising that this is even a point of discussion. i don't recall exactly when it changed, but here's how scoring worked prior to 2.5.6-ish: If you were on the ground at a friendly airfield and returned to spectators (unslotting), you did not receive a death. Even if you had taken damage, no kill was awarded to whoever damaged you. This makes sense, you made it home after all. If you unslotted in flight (or somewhere other than a friendly airfield), you were scored a loss. This makes sense, you left your airplane and didn't make it home. If you unslotted in flight after taking damage from another player, you were scored a loss and they were scored a kill. This makes sense, they damaged you, and you left your airplane. If your pilot was killed or if your pilot ejected, you were scored a loss. If your pilot was killed by another player (or if you ejected after taking damage), they were scored a kill. This makes sense for obvious reasons. Currently, it has been changed so that unslotting never results in a death. Only your pilot being killed or ejecting results in a scored death/scored kill. I'm not even sure it was intentional to change it. The old conditional logic is solid and worked well. Edited October 7, 2020 by Yaga
QuiGon Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 I agree, "muh score" Why should you get credit because somebody's internet cuts out? If they eject from the server you know what happened. It's not about people disconnecting. It's about people switching to spectator or another slot, when they got hit or about to get hit. It's also not about getting a score for the kill, but for the guy reslotting to get a loss. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Adam Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 I'd be interested to hear the reasons why it was dropped. Always good to hear another side of the story to get a different perspective. I get the unfair penalized if there are dropouts (ISP, or otherwise) that is no fault of the player, and maybe that was the reason - and it was easier to comment out code than it was to deal with the difference between someone returning to a slot vs seeing a connection fully drop. I don't know. I can understand how frustrating it would be though to fight someone, finally have them defensive and then see them disappear on you. I've never had it happen thanks to playing on strict admin'd servers. :-)
dorianR666 Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 I'd be interested to hear the reasons why it was dropped. i dont think this was an intentional change. scoreboard was always really buggy and ignoring or adding extra kills/deaths. its gonna be another year til this is resolved... CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580
=4c=Nikola Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 I do not see a problem. I mean, by unslotting he actually helped you to accomplish your mission by removing himself from the airspace. Just keep calm and continue mission. :matrix: Scoreboard is useless, it doesn't reflect real skill anyway. Do not expect fairness. The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.
QuiGon Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 I get the unfair penalized if there are dropouts (ISP, or otherwise) that is no fault of the player, and maybe that was the reason - and it was easier to comment out code than it was to deal with the difference between someone returning to a slot vs seeing a connection fully drop. I don't know. If you drop out from the server you won't have a score anymore anyways, so that doesn't apply. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Yaga Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 If you drop out from the server you won't have a score anymore anyways, so that doesn't apply. As of recently, if you leave a server and rejoin, it will remember your old score but initially show 0 in all columns. The next a2a/a2g kill you get will refresh your a2a/a2g score, and the next death you get will refresh your total deaths. I suspect this update to persistent scores/server session was what inadvertently changed the way kills and deaths were scored.
D4n Posted October 10, 2020 Author Posted October 10, 2020 Interesting details, thanks Yaga! DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence
QuiGon Posted October 11, 2020 Posted October 11, 2020 As of recently, if you leave a server and rejoin, it will remember your old score but initially show 0 in all columns. The next a2a/a2g kill you get will refresh your a2a/a2g score, and the next death you get will refresh your total deaths. I suspect this update to persistent scores/server session was what inadvertently changed the way kills and deaths were scored. Interesting, I wasn't aware of this! :thumbup: So when do these scores get resetted now? On mission change/restart? On server restart? And why are such changes not mentioned in the changelog @ED?! Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
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