Symbiont Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 Hi everyone, I have yet to learn if this is a bug or just an operating error: Whenever I drop a JSOW (both flavors) it either: Drops clusters (A) / explodes © 1-2 km off the target, drops to the ground without doing anything, or simple disappears close above the target. In every case it's way off my target. I also noticed that the missile starts a sudden random bank whenever close to the target area. The target is not moving and there is no AA nearby. I more than triple checked the entire procedure and made sure everything is correctly set, I use TOO mode, use a waypoint I set up as precise, used reasonable height setting for A variant and so on. I have this problem in various missions, either fast missions or multiplayer. I can't figure out what the issue is, watched videos, read the instructions, did everything accordingly. I'm now exhausted and I hope someone can give me a pointer what I'm still doing wrong. Thanks in advance! 1
Ryuk99 Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 Did you set up the right elevation of the target while creating a Waypoint?
Symbiont Posted October 21, 2020 Author Posted October 21, 2020 Yes I set the location height in feet accordingly and waypoint coordinates show up correctly on the HSI DATA page
Habu_69 Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 I employ JSOWs quite frequently and find them very accurate in both PP and TOO modes.
Symbiont Posted October 21, 2020 Author Posted October 21, 2020 Did you double check fusing? Yes I always set fuze to INST
ArjenHVA Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 Do you have a track file by any chance of those situations? Bit difficult to spot any operating error without seeing what you are exactly doing.
Symbiont Posted October 22, 2020 Author Posted October 22, 2020 Do you have a track file by any chance of those situations? Bit difficult to spot any operating error without seeing what you are exactly doing. Not yet, but once I have the time I'll create one! Hopefully this is not too complicated and will help solve my issue
Harker Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 Not yet, but once I have the time I'll create one! Hopefully this is not too complicated and will help solve my issue After you exit a mission, on the debrief screen, there is a button that says "Save Track", that's all. You can find your tracks in the Saved Games folder, in C:\Users"yourname"\Saved Games\DCS\Tracks\ Make the track as short and to the point as you can, so others can easily view it. 1 The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro
AvroLanc Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 Can confirm this behaviour. Sorry, I'll get a track later, but it seems that either PP mode or the EFUZ on setting will cause the JSOW to overfly/miss and dud. AGM-154A variant tested. Maybe for those experimenting try: PP/EFUZ INST PP/EFUZ/OFF TOO/EFUZ INST TOO/EFUZ OFF I've tried a few PP and EFUZ INST, they all showed odd flightplaths /dudded. However, TOO and EFUZ OFF worked correctly. Pretty sure EFUZ OFF should cause a dud. Not sure why this has gone unnoticed for 3 weeks, but there you go.
Eagle7907 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 The C, penetrator (giggity), seems to work okay for me. However the A, cluster, seems to be having autopilot issues. I’ve set everything up the same as the C, but the A seems to pitch up at around 7k AGL and bank to either right or left 45 degrees and impact the ground, missing in its entirety. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer
Symbiont Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 Can confirm this behaviour. Sorry, I'll get a track later, but it seems that either PP mode or the EFUZ on setting will cause the JSOW to overfly/miss and dud. AGM-154A variant tested. Maybe for those experimenting try: PP/EFUZ INST PP/EFUZ/OFF TOO/EFUZ INST TOO/EFUZ OFF I've tried a few PP and EFUZ INST, they all showed odd flightplaths /dudded. However, TOO and EFUZ OFF worked correctly. Pretty sure EFUZ OFF should cause a dud. Not sure why this has gone unnoticed for 3 weeks, but there you go. Tried both variants with EFUZ OFF setting in TOO, still not working. I also noticed that the missile always has a slight off heading early on already. C version does a weird random bank close to the target, A not, but both disappear in the ground without even exploding.
AvroLanc Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Tried both variants with EFUZ OFF setting in TOO, still not working. I also noticed that the missile always has a slight off heading early on already. C version does a weird random bank close to the target, A not, but both disappear in the ground without even exploding. Yeah there's something weird going on. I've tried all combinations of PP/TOO/EFUZ ON/OFF. I've had PP working one drop, and not working next. Same for TOO, there seems to be no consistency with the EFUZ setting either. The issue appears to be related to the weapon flying too high above it's intended profile. At some point it recognizes this, and rolls over to a 60-80 degree bank in order to lose height. However, it's too late and overshoots massively and duds. I've tried different drop ranges, max and approaching min but this has little effect. This problem could alternatively be related to the final terminal maneuver they always do. The JSOW always performs a roll/jink at some point close to the target. I believe this represents the transition from INS to GPS final guidance and the roll is maybe to acquire/align with the GPS signal. Maybe somethings going wrong here, randomly, with the guidance stuck in some kind of loop. I'm still trying to capture a consistent track, but real life happens.
dorianR666 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 at first i thought this thread is user error, but ive seen it multiple times today in multiplayer. jsow-a, efuz on, too (target designated from tgp) and aligned to maximum. consistently missing the target. CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580
chrisreb Posted October 26, 2020 Posted October 26, 2020 Oh good its not just me then - seeing same behaviour of sudden veering from course and dudding into ground
Symbiont Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 So now it is safe to say that this is a bug and not wrong operation, since several pilots encountered the exact same described problem?
Stearmandriver Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 That's strange - I played with JSOWs for the first time yesterday. Used several As in PP mode and each one was a direct hit?
prichardgs Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 The C, penetrator (giggity), seems to work okay for me. However the A, cluster, seems to be having autopilot issues. I’ve set everything up the same as the C, but the A seems to pitch up at around 7k AGL and bank to either right or left 45 degrees and impact the ground, missing in its entirety. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Having the same issue-they bank hard left and tank off target.
prichardgs Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 That's strange - I played with JSOWs for the first time yesterday. Used several As in PP mode and each one was a direct hit? Using the c variant? I only get the strange behavior with A's C works great.
Stearmandriver Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 Using the c variant? I only get the strange behavior with A's C works great. Believe they were the A... the cluster variant.
williamzporto Posted November 4, 2020 Posted November 4, 2020 Hey guys, I'm having the exact same problem with the 154A (the 154C seems to work fine) in both TOO and PP modes, however after several tests, I think I've got something: By doing launches on targets (SA-11 for my tests) from around 33.000ft and at a speed of 280 (using F/A-18C), ALL missiles shot from longer than about 25nm will miss, exactly as described above by Eagle7907, with them banking right or left 45 degrees and impacting the ground, completely missing the targets, despite the fact that they enter the "IN RANGE" area at about 38nm from the target (at this given speed/alt)... However, I did a lot of tests, and all 154A missiles launched from closer than about 25nm of the target are working perfectly fine, as intended. Note that it apparently depends on speed and altitude, so I'd say anything closer than 23nm to be safe. I've tested now after the 4th/Nov update, so no excuses... Attached you can see the track files from 2 tests: a successful one, releasing 8 AGM-154A closer than 25nm, and all hitting their targets. And a failed one, with 3 missiles being launched from ranges higher than 25nm of their targets. F18-JSOW-Missing-FLIR-Only.trk F18-JSOW-Hitting-(FLIR -25nm).trk Now, as far as I'm aware, the AGM-154A missiles shouldn't have this limit range of about 25nm with the given altitude and speed, so I'm guessing it's a bug? Hopefully the guys from ED can do something with the data I'm providing here. Please guys, test this range/altitude/speed and let us know if that's, in fact, the issue.
Bearfoot Posted November 4, 2020 Posted November 4, 2020 Hey guys, I'm having the exact same problem with the 154A (the 154C seems to work fine) in both TOO and PP modes, however after several tests, I think I've got something: By doing launches on targets (SA-11 for my tests) from around 33.000ft and at a speed of 280 (using F/A-18C), ALL missiles shot from longer than about 25nm will miss, exactly as described above by Eagle7907, with them banking right or left 45 degrees and impacting the ground, completely missing the targets, despite the fact that they enter the "IN RANGE" area at about 38nm from the target (at this given speed/alt)... However, I did a lot of tests, and all 154A missiles launched from closer than about 25nm of the target are working perfectly fine, as intended. Note that it apparently depends on speed and altitude, so I'd say anything closer than 23nm to be safe. I've tested now after the 4th/Nov update, so no excuses... Attached you can see the track files from 2 tests: a successful one, releasing 8 AGM-154A closer than 25nm, and all hitting their targets. And a failed one, with 3 missiles being launched from ranges higher than 25nm of their targets. [ATTACH]n7127046[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]n7127047[/ATTACH] Now, as far as I'm aware, the AGM-154A missiles shouldn't have this limit range of about 25nm with the given altitude and speed, so I'm guessing it's a bug? Hopefully the guys from ED can do something with the data I'm providing here. Please guys, test this range/altitude/speed and let us know if that's, in fact, the issue. I have the same problem as described by the OP --- 154A (only; 154C works fine) many times seen overflying target and then veering off to crash behind the target. On some occasions, I've had hits. Never figured out why one but not the other. @williamzporto : your findings are very interesting, and may explain the inconsistency!
Al-Azraq Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Hi, are you having this behaviour by any chance? https://i.imgur.com/l8aN3xs.gifv The bombs where aligned, designated by the TGP, and launched within range. GPS was in IFA mode and completely aligned. I didn't set the HT, but there should be a default HT right? i understand that there's no need to touch this option unless needed. The server was Blue Flag by the way. Thanks. i7 12700KF | MSI Z690 A-PRO | Corsair Vengeance 2x16 gb @ 3200 Mhz | RTX 3070 Ti FE | Acer XB271HU 1440P 144HZ | Virpil T-50 CM throttle | Virpil WarBRD Base + MongoosT-50 CM2 Grip | MFG Crosswind | TrackIR 5 | HP Reverb G2 Bf 109 K-4 | Fw 190 A-8 | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | P-51D | Fw 190 D-9 | P-47D | Mosquito FB VI | F/A 18C | F-14 A/B | F-16C | MiG-15bis | MiG-21bis | M-2000C | A-10C | AJS-37 Viggen | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-24P | C-101 | Flaming Cliffs 3 Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | The Channel | Syria
Clean Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Are you on OB or Stable? After the end of September patch I was getting this behavior with the JSOW A, but after yesterday's OB patch they are now working correctly for me. Edit: I'm playing the newest OB if that wasn't clear
williamzporto Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Hi, are you having this behaviour by any chance? https://i.imgur.com/l8aN3xs.gifv The bombs where aligned, designated by the TGP, and launched within range. GPS was in IFA mode and completely aligned. I didn't set the HT, but there should be a default HT right? i understand that there's no need to touch this option unless needed. The server was Blue Flag by the way. Thanks. Here I'm having this exact behaviour, the JSOWs just bank to one side, fly over the target and hit the ground. This, however, is only for releases from distances greater than 25nm from the target (@33.000/280), anything closer than this works normally.
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