Black Shark deep penetration mission?

[bogusheadbox]

LOL i must be a sicko,

 

I thought the title said black sheep.....

 

Now i read it.... How crazy are you to try *THAT* with a shark instead

 

Fwoooaaarrr :cry:

[Flyby]

ewe!

 

LOL i must be a sicko,

 

I thought the title said black sheep.....

 

Now i read it.... How crazy are you to try *THAT* with a shark instead

 

Fwoooaaarrr :cry:

ewe!! get it? "ewe"? :megalol: black sheep deep penetration, eh? trying that with a shark, eh? might catch something like small cox if you're not careful.!:D

[159th_Viper]

............trying that with a shark, eh? might catch something like small cox if you're not careful.!:D

 

With Five rows of teeth to your average Shark - I dare say you'll land up with No-Cox!!!

 

:cry:

[Flyby]

me thinks...

 

With Five rows of teeth to your average Shark - I dare say you'll land up with No-Cox!!!

 

:cry:

we're gonna get banned if this line of talk continues!:P you guys know how to get a man off topic! I'm usually so serious!:doh:

Flyby out

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

we're gonna get banned if this line of talk continues!:P you guys know how to get a man off topic! I'm usually so serious!:doh:

Flyby out

 

 

So say then that you create such a mission;

 

1. if it's really a deep mission how will those supplies of fuel and ammunition be put in place so deep inside enemy territory?

2. Will the extra fuel tanks be actually visible in game or will they merely be software overrides to the fuel supply?

[Avimimus]

So say then that you create such a mission;

 

1. if it's really a deep mission how will those supplies of fuel and ammunition be put in place so deep inside enemy territory?

2. Will the extra fuel tanks be actually visible in game or will they merely be software overrides to the fuel supply?

 

1) There are many ways one could get equipment into enemy territory IRL: Mi-8 cargo choppers, commandos, friendly paramilitaries/guerrillas etc.

 

2) I believe there are a number of new helicopter ground support objects (see the screenshots on the website).

 

Remember, I'm not affiliated with anyone who knows anything here.

[Flyby]

Well I intend to try...

 

So say then that you create such a mission;

 

1. if it's really a deep mission how will those supplies of fuel and ammunition be put in place so deep inside enemy territory?

2. Will the extra fuel tanks be actually visible in game or will they merely be software overrides to the fuel supply?

F.I. I'm not a beta tester, so I asked the question about the scenario. When I get my hands on the sim I'll certainly try my hand at building a deep penetration misison. Like everyone new to the sim I'll have to learn the miossion editor. Wags answered "yes" to all my questions about such missions, at least it's doable.

The key issue of this thread is that such missions can be made. Who makes them is not so important, you see. I belong to an IL2 squadron (99th_Flyby), and I made many missions for them. Usually the missions were of a desperate nature, and difficult to win without taking "ferocious" losses. My squadies took to calling them "Die_by" missions. ;). Oh, one thing I will add is about a mission I made for the Battle fo Midway. It was a long coop, taking off from carriers, and all that. Some didn't take enough fuel, and ran out along the way. Many just quit the coop because it was taking too long to get to the action. The lesson laid on me was that the average online pilot didn't want long flights to the action. But at least I know it's doable in Black Shark. as for how many might want to try it as a coop...I have no idea.

Finally I don't know the answer to your questions yet. Maybe Wags or some ED tester can chime in. But let me ask you; are you going to make such missions?

Flyby out

[nemises]

Co-op on a public server?..probably not...

Co-op as a pre-arranged with a group of people I know are into it?..hell yes

[Highwayman-Ed]

The mission could just be a cold start at an airfield 100km back from the FEBA and the FARP is 10km behind friendly lines, you fly out from there to the target and back for a top up before heading back to the starting airfield, but you'd have to be a real geek for that :p

 

oh, yeah, that's me... :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

200km, 1hour+ flight :D

 

But if you're willing to do such a 'deployment' I'm willing to create a mission that might make it potentially interesting once BS is out :D

[MBot]

1. if it's really a deep mission how will those supplies of fuel and ammunition be put in place so deep inside enemy territory?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

 

On the failed rescue of the hostages in Tehran they had C-130 setting up refueling sites inside Iran.

[Avimimus]

Usually the missions were of a desperate nature, and difficult to win without taking "ferocious" losses. My squadies took to calling them "Die_by" missions. ;). Oh, one thing I will add is about a mission I made for the Battle fo Midway. It was a long coop, taking off from carriers, and all that. Some didn't take enough fuel, and ran out along the way. Many just quit the coop because it was taking too long to get to the action. The lesson laid on me was that the average online pilot didn't want long flights to the action. But at least I know it's doable in Black Shark.

 

I think the definitive issue here is the combination of the two characteristics (ie. flying a long way in order to die).

 

I could never get into OFP ('cept for the OWP Mi-2 and BAS OH-58 ) because all of the missions required you to kill 20+ enemy soldiers and half a tank platoon. The same goes for the default single missions in Lomac, they take a good deal of skill and multiple tries before you develop "a walkthrough" for carrying out them mission without dying. I can see the appeal of hard missions to their designers, in that virtually unwinnable missions have to be replayed more in order to complete them, but in reality an easily winnable mission is also just as enjoyable and offer the player a greater variety of approaches and more chances to admire the mission's design.

 

I'd much prefer a campaign where are skilled player could reach mission fifteen without dying or being overly heroic. Imagine typical missions where you totally outnumber and outclass your opponent and your goal is instead to win the battle with no allied casualties...

I'm not saying there can't be "white knuckled", desperate and heroic missions. I'm just saying that they should be the exception instead of the rule in any campaign.

 

Does anyone agree with this idea?

 

S!

[AlphaOneSix]

I'd much prefer a campaign where are skilled player could reach mission fifteen without dying or being overly heroic. Imagine typical missions where you totally outnumber and outclass your opponent and your goal is instead to win the battle with no allied casualties...

I'm not saying there can't be "white knuckled", desperate and heroic missions. I'm just saying that they should be the exception instead of the rule in any campaign.

 

Does anyone agree with this idea?

 

I agree completely!

[arneh]

The same goes for the default single missions in Lomac, they take a good deal of skill and multiple tries before you develop "a walkthrough" for carrying out them mission without dying. I can see the appeal of hard missions to their designers, in that virtually unwinnable missions have to be replayed more in order to complete them, but in reality an easily winnable mission is also just as enjoyable and offer the player a greater variety of approaches and more chances to admire the mission's design.

 

I'd much prefer a campaign where are skilled player could reach mission fifteen without dying or being overly heroic.

 

Does anyone agree with this idea?

 

Yes, I agree, and I've said it before. I hate missions where you stand no chance of succeeding on the first try. And when you finally do succeed it's because you know exactly what is going to happen at each point, rather than because of the skills you would need in real life where you get only one chance.

 

And I would probably hate it even more if I had to spend an hour to get to the target zone, only to discover when I get there that it's a suicide mission with no chance of succeeding on first try.

[Flyby]

With the Black Shark, think in terms of a deep penetration surprise attack. Greater chance for survival, hopefully. Maybe it could be a co-op that was prearranged as well. I don't know for sure, but all ideas are welcome. Besides, good misison planning should include keeping your causalties down. Don't ya think? I guess it would take a special committment to take on a coop mission that lasts an hour. Maybe the key trigger for such a mission would be it's success or. Imagine it: the mission fails and hordes of enemy assests swamp your feba then your borders. You might survive, but the desperation factor might be quite high, knowing what's at stake.

Just tossing out thoughts. I'm sure each will do what's in his/her best interests.

Flyby out

[Flyby]

Co-op on a public server?..probably not...

Co-op as a pre-arranged with a group of people I know are into it?..hell yes

 

200km, 1hour+ flight :D

 

But if you're willing to do such a 'deployment' I'm willing to create a mission that might make it potentially interesting once BS is out :D

 

I approve these messages!:D

Flyby out

[GGTharos]

I dunno, I do close to 2 hours of BFM on every BFM session I fly. :P

 

I guess it would take a special committment to take on a coop mission that lasts an hour.

[GGTharos]

I'm not for 'desperate' missions, especially when they take so long to fly. In addition, you can't really make people do that in BS because the avionics themselves take time to use.

 

The time spent transiting from point A to point B will not necessary be boring: You may have to do your INU fixes, manually input new waypoints into the PVI, etc etc as you progress. Now imagine that it isn't just -you- but you and your entire flight.

 

There's no point in making the target super-difficult or anything of the sort at this point; after all, you have the element of surprise ... unless you fly over a city and it happens to have a guy with a cellphone who alerts all the nearby SAMs, so you all die because of ONE guy, you had better give him HELL at the debriefing :D

 

The mission -could- be constructed such that you -will- most likely fail if you do not plan, pay attention, fly that good plan, pay attention, and don't employ teamwork. The Black Shark has excellent scouting potential which can be utilized by you in a strike when attacking a 'low intel' region, for example. Of course, if your scout decides to start shooting everything up and ends up getting himself killed ... :P

 

So I guess for that kind of mission you'll need some special people to fly it with. IN fact I'd do it in parts, eg:

 

1. Deployment

2. The actual attack.

 

You might have some sub-mission to play depending on how mission 1 and 2 go, thus creating a bit of a story.

 

It should always ALWAYS be possible to pull things off without casualties. You will find, that casualties need not be assured by the Mission Editor. The ME can provide you with a completely accomplishable mission. If you want casualties, have no fear: Your wingmen will undoubtedly make them happen, 'cause they're human ;). No need for desperation ;)

[159th_Viper]

......The time spent transiting from point A to point B will not necessary be boring......

 

 

And that's exactly the aspect I am most looking forward to...........not blowing the fcuk out of everything - just the Pleasure of Flight and exploring the Countryside at leisure, hitherto missed as a consequence of flying a Jet!

 

 

And yes - I still maintain that a 30mm Duel through the streets of Krasnodar is high on my list of priorities :D

[Flyby]

well I'm all done in. Nothing to do but wait for the release and see how things shake out. It's been an interesting discussion though, with the varying points of view about mission-making, et al. Thanks to all for your feedback. Good stuff.

Flyby out

[Avimimus]

Its nice to see some people who agree (...they seemed to think I was crazy when I made the same argument at the BIStudio forum...)

 

And yes - I still maintain that a 30mm Duel through the streets of Krasnodar is high on my list of priorities :D

 

Jousting with a single rocket pod...

[Rhino4]

Like the opening vid of eech2...

[Ferocious_Imbecile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

 

On the failed rescue of the hostages in Tehran they had C-130 setting up refueling sites inside Iran.

 

 

And we know how that turned out don't we? :(

 

But yeah, IF I can learn how to fly this sim I'll be in for long missions. I'm an online gaming addict when the bug hits me. But the game has to be right. BS DCS is looking like an incredible dream come true...

[LazerPotatoe]

Say that you had to do an emergency startup of the KA-50, and had to navigate to a distant FARP, in the early morning darkness, with no external lights.

 

What parts of the startup could be skipped, and how would you navigate to the FARP?

Let's pretend that none of the waypoints or INU points were previously programmed.

 

I assume you could start the ABRIS while you are flying and use the map to find the FARP? Would the ABRIS contain the cities in the area, so that you could avoid overflying them once you crossed into enemy territory?

 

Do FARPs have radio beacons?

[Weta43]

I assume you could start the ABRIS while you are flying and use the map to find the FARP? Would the ABRIS contain the cities in the area, so that you could avoid overflying them once you crossed into enemy territory

 

If they've given you co-ordinates for the FARP (& if they haven't then how do you know it exists), then you can just create a flight plan on the ABRIS after you start up the chopper - either a considered route avoiding cities, threat zones etc, or just use the "create flight plan to this point" function... ( the flight plan presumably could be planned to allow re-setting the INS at obvious geographical features, so at least you know where you are should the ABRIS lose sat coverage)

 

If you watch the Abris vid, you can display - or not display - a wide variety of features on the map.

 

That reminds me - in the original TFC Abris / weapons control vid, the ABRIS displayed threat zones around known threats, adjusted for altitude. I haven't heard this mentioned in any of the new videos. Does that functionality still exist in DCS.BS ?