ATTENTION: SPOILERS! - F-14B CAMPAIGN REFORGER PART I+II FEEDBACK THREAD - Read at your own discretion.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, ebabil said:

Is reforger 2 now playable?

The files were updated in recent patches but... you never know with the new DCS version

[Rick_NSX]

Is reforger 2 now playable?

If you find a bug that makes it unplayable, post it here and someone can take a look to see how to fix it.

Rick

[Spirale]

Hi,

would it be possible to fly this amazing campaign with 2 humans on board by simply editing the slot " player" ---> " client"?

I did that in Regorger II 1st mission and it worked BUT in Regorger I campaign, none of this was good: my RIO buddy was indeed "in" the cat but was not able to do anything with the radar...

Our beloved Tomcat is a two seater, it will be fantastic to be able to fly with a buddy because this a free campaign and no licence is mandatory for both players

Thx for your futur replies

[draconus]

19 minutes ago, Spirale said:

would it be possible to fly this amazing campaign with 2 humans on board by simply editing the slot " player" ---> " client"?

Test if you want but it's not meant for multi-crew. It's catered toward Jester doing many scripted actions.

SP campaigns are never good for multicrew afaik. Better check some PvE servers or multi-crew missions from F-14 install folder.

[TimSell75]

Am 25.11.2023 um 20:42 schrieb Rick_NSX:

If you find a bug that makes it unplayable, post it here and someone can take a look to see how to fix it.

Rick
 

In Mission 4, after Refueling, Jester Set Waypoint 3 to somewhere outside the map. Without passing that Waypoint the mission can not be completed.

[Lt.Salty]

I had the same problem but the mission can be completed anyway. You just need to follow the Tacan to Incirlic and be a little bit lucky with the triggers around the airbase. 

[Rokkett]

On 12/3/2023 at 1:02 AM, TimSell75 said:

In Mission 4, after Refueling, Jester Set Waypoint 3 to somewhere outside the map. Without passing that Waypoint the mission can not be completed.

Just re-flew Mission 4: Shock and Awe and it worked fine for me. After AAR, WP 3 was about 120 miles away. Upon arrival at WP 3, I received vectors to land at Incirlik for a Mission Complete.

[draconus]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:02 PM, TimSell75 said:

Jester Set Waypoint 3 to somewhere outside the map

INS over-G?

[IronMike]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:33 AM, draconus said:

INS over-G?

Very likely, this trigger has been confirmed to work by several folks.

[Phantom12]

So... Reforger II mission 3:

Spoiler

Not sure if this is due to AI changes since the mission was made, but man those Hinds are exceedingly difficult to kill. They dont seem to show up in the PD modes, and even though you can lock them in PAL/Pulse the sparrow doesnt seem to really guide on them reliably. Their all knowing 6th sense and flare spamming seems to save them from AIM-9 shots fairly reliably as well. Ive managed to get a few missile kills by firing at extremely close range, but usually no more than 1/3 is successful. That leaves guns. Even in daylight he high closure rate and robust DM of the Hind make this pretty tough. And maybe its worse in VR but spotting these guys to strafe in the dark is extremely tricky. I can extend and find them in PAL but gun attacks are fairly suicidal in this lighting. Ive mostly breezed through the other missions in both campaigns so far but this one took me 9 attempts. Between restarting the mission to get around the MT bug with TCS/Lantirn video, colliding with 2nd Hind.... twice , and flubbing one of the GBU drops after trying to fly the lantirn orbit how the jester asks me too, which im convinced is geometrically not entirely possible/sensible.... Anyway the frustration factor is high here. The call to intercept the Hinds also vectors you 20deg right of WP1... in all my attempts the Hinds are actually on a Bearing exactly towards WP1 or 20 deg left.

If I could add 2 more general comments: Im probably on a lower end system than most for VR, but I wonder if performance wouldnt benefit if some of the "off screen" things happening 200 miles away werent just left to be simulated by voice messages etc and not with units in game. The attack on latakia in R2M2 and the revenge strikes after SCUD attack in R2M1 for example are things the player probably wont ever see except in tacview.

2ndly: I personally would have preferred if some of the air combat/intercepts were a little less scripted. I get why they are that way for cinematic/story purposes but often it feels like the mission is handing me free kills with enemy that dont shoot back or explode in midair if they start to threaten me. Ive been enjoying getting familiar with the Weapons/Systems on the F-14. There is so much depth to these systems and weapons and they are modeled so well that learning to master them is really a challenge and alot of fun to get right. These missions challenge the players ability with navigation, instrument flying, carrier landings etc etc, but then the air combat is often a bit of a gimmie. Not to mention that at times it can be confusing when they occasionally do start shooting back and Im not sure if I should fly good tactics or try and stick to the "script". If I choose wrong I either die or risk breaking a trigger and have to refly.

Anyway aside from all this Id like to say that these campaigns are really very nicely done. The storytelling and variety in the missions is excellent, and I really appreciate that they were included with the F-14 for free. I hope the above doesnt come off as too negative, I understand how challenging it probably is to create something that is both immersive/cinematic and yet tolerant/robust enough to handle the sort of Dynamic nature of air warfare.

 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Phantom12 said:

this one took me 9 attempts

Surprising to hear. The missions went pretty smooth for me as soon as I used fixed versions of ones that were broken for good months. Also that part was optional afair.

I did not have the feeling of the staged battles. They were good enough for a bit of challenge and not some unrealistic "win the whole war alone as a hero". If you were smart in your decisions and immerse yourself as a pilot that took orders seriously all action fit well.

What kind of PC/VR are you using? Syria and F-14 are already pretty taxing modules.

[Phantom12]

Ive just been flying the versions included with the latest OB. Havent had any issues with triggers or huge mission bugs. Maybe an audio playing out of time here or there or playing over one another but nothing game breaking. Dont think that task was optional. It was stated that the ground element would be in trouble if they werent shot down. Like I said maybe this has to do with AI updates. I saw a few videos where people just ripple fired aim 9s at them carelessly and they went down but these days they seem to use flares much more effectively.

 

I guess well have to agree to disagree. I understand its a bit of a matter of perspective. But other than R1M5 :

Spoiler

with all the TALDS, and friendlys on scope managing jester to find the right target is a bit of a challenge. And these guys actually shoot back.

and maybe R1M8 the AI wont shoot first let alone shoot back and tend to get swarmed by AI F-14s, and half the time even before the AI can kill them they get deleted via trigger. I dont think the point about hero scenarios really makes sense either.... by the end of the first real "combat" mission in R1M5 I already had more kills than Tom Cruise ever got in Top Gun.

 

Yes Syria runs fairly poorly, and my system is definitely not fully up to it, but I make do. Im only running an old Rift CV1. R1 I only really had problems when all the Tomahawks and TALDs were in the air... R2 it seems alot is linked to Incirlik, all the buildings and airfield scenery are pretty heavy... nothing to be done about these. But even around incirlik once it loads these things it chugs along fine until someone starts bombing things 200NM away.

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, Phantom12 said:

Ive just been flying the versions included with the latest OB. Havent had any issues with triggers or huge mission bugs. Maybe an audio playing out of time here or there or playing over one another but nothing game breaking. Dont think that task was optional. It was stated that the ground element would be in trouble if they werent shot down. Like I said maybe this has to do with AI updates. I saw a few videos where people just ripple fired aim 9s at them carelessly and they went down but these days they seem to use flares much more effectively.

 

I guess well have to agree to disagree. I understand its a bit of a matter of perspective. But other than R1M5 :

  Reveal hidden contents

with all the TALDS, and friendlys on scope managing jester to find the right target is a bit of a challenge. And these guys actually shoot back.

and maybe R1M8 the AI wont shoot first let alone shoot back and tend to get swarmed by AI F-14s, and half the time even before the AI can kill them they get deleted via trigger. I dont think the point about hero scenarios really makes sense either.... by the end of the first real "combat" mission in R1M5 I already had more kills than Tom Cruise ever got in Top Gun.

 

Yes Syria runs fairly poorly, and my system is definitely not fully up to it, but I make do. Im only running an old Rift CV1. R1 I only really had problems when all the Tomahawks and TALDs were in the air... R2 it seems alot is linked to Incirlik, all the buildings and airfield scenery are pretty heavy... nothing to be done about these. But even around incirlik once it loads these things it chugs along fine until someone starts bombing things 200NM away.

Thank you for your feedback. I will see if I can make the hinds a bit dumber, take away their flares, etc.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Phantom12 said:

and half the time even before the AI can kill them they get deleted via trigger

Do you confirm that @IronMike?

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Do you confirm that @IronMike?

I haven't played the mission in ages, it is possible that AI behavior changed somewhat, so the "in case if not, delete" kinda logic kicks in too early.

[Phantom12]

Ok I looked back at my Tacview tracks and will correct myself on that, the main AC getting "deleted" seem to mostly be Bandits assigned to the AI off in the distance, which is fine. When I look closer one or two of the bandits just flew into the ground themselves while dodging missiles. I didnt look closely enough at the time and assumed the same had happened to them as with the other ac I had seen earlier. Maybe its just placebo or due to AI difficulty or what weapons they are carrying but generally the Fulcrums and Flankers feel somewhat less dangerous than in ME setups I have used for training. On the whole the balance there isnt so bad, I guess I was mostly referring to R2M2: 

Spoiler

The first Mig is a free kill for jester, and the 2nd pair of Migs the other Uzi flight goes and kills both despite calling Targeted north.

Anyway thanks for taking a look. Again I think overall the campaigns are very very good, most of this is just nitpicking/philosophising. 

[Phantom12]

Ok R2M5 is a perfect example of the point Im trying to make: 

Spoiler

The mission went well up until the incident with the pop up group. We get a call about Migs behind us, the smart thing to do is probably extend and fight them closer to the sea instead of near all those sams but hey great balls of fire lets commit.... Pontiac is being committed as well... no way im letting those VF-103 boys steal my kills

I turn in and IIRC i noted the 3 bandits before the message gets called, but theres also bunch of friendlys almost on top of them too. How did pontiac get there so fast? Anyway the radar display is cluttered, they are 40 NM away and jester is asking me to fly a specific profile to allow him to shoot. All the while im thinking about those sams we bypassed on the way out too and how to get around the clouds between us and the bandit.
 

Voiceover Jester wants to do the shooting again so im forced to fly straight at a Mig until 5NM when he finally shoots. Then Voiceover jester calls merged and tells me the 2nd bandit is all up to me. Ive of course got no idea where the 2nd and 3rd guys are because Jester had the 1st one in STT the whole time and I had to fly straight at him so jester could shoot. I break in a hard turn figuring Im merged with this AI and hes gonna get the drop on me since I dont have sight, AI jester calls Mig 6 oclock but thats of course only the burning wreckage of the guy who died 20seconds ago... In VR all the planes are just big black dots and in the recent updates you can spot at dogfighting ranges pretty well but I just dont see this guy anywhere... Im not in a good spot here, down low near all those sams and with 2 bandits unaccounted for its time to bug out, or at least extend, get feet wet and get some altitude again. Magic is calling picture clear but im sure those migs are still alive since they flash briefly on the RWR every once in a while.

I run out to sea, find Uzi 4 chasing a Mig and help him kill that guy. But no more radio messages from here on out. I hit the tanker and fly home after sweeping the target area with the radar again. After I land, as I roll onto the arm pad the message from Uzi4s kill triggers... But at this point i dont feel like taking off and flying the approach again so I exit the mission... Result 0, you failed...

What really happened was the friendlys I saw were Tornados from enfield, who I spotted ahead of us on run in were still hanging around and egressing behind us. Never heard a radio call from enfield the whole time. Pontiac never committed at all.... And the 2nd Mig I was "merged" with was 10 miles away and flew passively above me on a sightseeing run out to the coast and then back to land at Hama.

 

I even spotted the 2nd guy briefly, between staring at black dots that were tornados and parachutes, but he was in/above the clouds and I wasnt sure what he was. I locked up a few things but TCS was busted too because of the MT bug, and jester called out buddy lock. I figured climbing up through the clouds in burner was a bad idea if there were still guys close to me below, thats a perfect heater shot up the behind... Ill stay low and help mop up anything Uzi 4 is tangling with, Pontiac will get that high guy.

Maybe I would have screwed this up just as bad as now if I was forced to sort and shoot on my own terms, with my own tactics. But at least it would have been my fault instead of because I was chasing voiceovers and triggers. Instead Im forced to fly in some way which would be suicidal against the AI normally, and dumps most of my SA out the window. In one mission the AI will fight you with their full ability, in the next they cruise along like airliners.

 

Edit: Having played the final mission now Id say that this one is pretty much the ideal to me. More freedom to act and fight the Bandits allowed me better SA and better results overall. I still made a few mistakes here and there but those were my own, and in the end I came out pretty well overall.

Edited January 4 by Phantom12

[MartynJ2914]

Ok guys can someone help me i waited for  bugs to be fixed on part 2 of this campaign i have flow it about 8 to 10 times now and still cant finish mission 3 due to triggers not going off i have played  mission 3 2 times tonight killing over 2 and a half hours and i still havent been able to continue can someone give advice or something i have played all the tomcat campaigns including part one and im still no further forward 

[Rokkett]

6 hours ago, MartynJ2914 said:

Ok guys can someone help me i waited for  bugs to be fixed on part 2 of this campaign i have flow it about 8 to 10 times now and still cant finish mission 3 due to triggers not going off i have played  mission 3 2 times tonight killing over 2 and a half hours and i still havent been able to continue can someone give advice or something i have played all the tomcat campaigns including part one and im still no further forward 

Are you playing the most up-to-date mission file, and if so, where exactly in the mission are you getting stuck? 

[MartynJ2914]

Which are currently the most up to date files ? I be leave i am @Rokkett and its not so much im getting stuck its the triggers themselves sometimes not going off as i said i played 2 missions in a row the other day. I had one where the hinds didnt trigger and i pretty much flew all the way back to base the other was the atc didnt trigger and i have also had the over head break not trigger. I do feel like it might be more of a me problem but i do follow all jesters instructions ect...  so not sure .

[draconus]

21 hours ago, MartynJ2914 said:

I had one where the hinds didnt trigger and i pretty much flew all the way back to base the other was the atc didnt trigger and i have also had the over head break not trigger. I do feel like it might be more of a me problem but i do follow all jesters instructions ect...  so not sure .

I can't say missions are 100% fine in current DCS version but it's a common problem with scripted missions. Always read twice carefully the messages given. Remember your location when you heard the message as to correctly apply navigation from there, ex. "20nm north-west from your position" will be only valid at the time you hear the message and for your location at that time. You can reference other waypoints for that. If it's the moving target, esp. aircraft, you have to apply some calculated guess as to where it may currently be, since it can fly considerable distance since the last message. Work your radar actively from distance to get wider area covered, to easier find such target. If you're sure you missed the trigger zone fly back to the last message location and fly again more correct path. Sometimes you'll hit it on the way back.

Edited January 31 by draconus

[Rokkett]

11 hours ago, MartynJ2914 said:

Which are currently the most up to date files ? I be leave i am @Rokkett and its not so much im getting stuck its the triggers themselves sometimes not going off as i said i played 2 missions in a row the other day. I had one where the hinds didnt trigger and i pretty much flew all the way back to base the other was the atc didnt trigger and i have also had the over head break not trigger. I do feel like it might be more of a me problem but i do follow all jesters instructions ect...  so not sure .

If you're flying current DCS stable/open beta then, yes, you will have the most current mission files. All the triggers in R2M3 do work, BUT you do have to follow instructions closely.

Also, the Hinds are difficult to locate - they spawn in around the new WP 1 that Jester creates for you, but it's dark and they fly low enough that you may not pick them up on radar. Purists may not like it, but "labels on" in this case will help give you a tally.

[MartynJ2914]

@Rokkett @draconus you wouldnt believe me if i told you after 10 to 15 attempts it played the game and all triggers went off i play the mission 30 minutes ago and boom to mission 4 so weird thanks for your help guys though just a really strange problem ... 

[Bushwood]

So far I'm enjoying this campaign, but Reforger 2 mission 3 is being a real pain.  I keep running into multiple problems that are failing the mission.

I run into one of two problems in the first mission area.  First problem, after hitting the bunkers, Jester can not hit the mobile scuds.  I usually have to go in and strafe them.  Looking at the Tac-view is doesn't look like they are tracking the laser, just falling ballisticly and falling long,  they weren't  masked by me or the clouds.  Or Jester will hit the bunker and the scuds, but Lead can't hit his second target.  It looks like the thing moves into rubble.  The bomb looks like a hit, but its not a kill.  So I'm stuck just orbiting and never getting the rejoin.

If I make it to the hinds,  missiles are pretty much useless.  They defeat the Sparrow ever time.  Sidewinders are not useful because the flare every time. The one time did managed to kill them I wasted so much him trying to find and gun them, I didn't have enough gas left to make to the tanker.  

If I might suggest.  Could it be set up that rejoining with Lead after all your bombs are drops Force an RTB, regardless of the remaining targets.

 

Update.  OK,  I figured out how to complete it.  If I re-input the laser code for the third and four targets, Jester has no problems hitting them.  Leads targets moving into the rubble seems to be a random thing.  And as far as the helos, as long as I hold fire till somewhere between min range and mid air collision, I seem to have no problem.

 

Edited February 19 by Bushwood
figured it out

[Comes]

I just finished the Reforger 2 campagin and I  had a lot of fun despite some of the triggers nor doing what I was expecting them to do.

In two missions I had an issue with the ATC instructions not triggering, I landed by myself and skipped the mission (decided that I had completed the task).

Also, if you fail a mission, you get 0 Points. This makes you go back one mission, I don't think that this is how it should be.

In the Chemical strike mission, I got a target Hit message, however after that no messages were triggered. I decided to RTB, since I did not get any other instructions. Missions counted as a failure, though. 

 

The missions themselves were a lot of fun (rather easy in terms of combat, but I don't mind :D) and there were a few very funny dialogs, ideas etc (convertable!)

I also liked, that it was partly land and partly carrier based). The credit song was also great.

It's a shame that the triggers cause some problems, since the missions themselves are so good. But I was able to complete the main task in each mission without trigger problems