New PC, Worse Framerate

[AlexCaboose]

I just built a new PC over the weekend. My old system was an i9900K w/ an RTX 3090 and 64GB of RAM @3600mhz. I just upgraded to an AMD system with a 5950X. I am using the Reverb G2 for VR. I used to get a solid 90 FPS in the main menu, and 50-55 FPS in game. Now I'm getting 45 in the menu, with noticeable artifacts. Text seems to bend when moving my head quickly. Not sure if this is a side effect of reprojection or something. 

In any event, the whole thing has left me very confused. Anyone know how to fix this? I'd like to get 90FPS in the menus again, and it seems my overall FPS is much lower with this new build. I used to get 55ish FPS, now I'm down to 30. All settings in DCS as far as I can tell are the same as I copied over my saved games folder etc.

[AlexCaboose]

It's also saying I'm getting reprojection in the main menu, which never used to happen.

[speed-of-heat]

Hi Alex,

how frustrating! you don’t say if your HMD remained the same or if that was also upgraded?   I assume you have checked your cooling is working correctly etc...
 

a couple of easy steps especially if you have upgraded to 2.7 at the same time, uninstall all mods, do a dcs repair (full slow) and rename your current saved games folder. If you check my signature for my 3090 settings you should find some things to explore and test, which might help.

 

do you have fpsvr? It can help you diagnose where things are going badly? In many cases making sure the hygiene steps are done can make a big difference to stability of frametimes which is what drives the FPS...

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[Lurker]

You say that you copied over your saved games folder. There have been multiple reports of problems regarding shaders and performance with people upgrading to 2.7 relating to just that. I would say that first of all you should delete that saved games folder, and let DCS world rebuild it from scratch. It's a pain to rebind your keys and redo all your video settings but in the long run it's worth it if it solves your performance issues. 

[speed-of-heat]

Rename is better, as it preserves the input config and logbook etc... it also enables you to roll it back

[AlexCaboose]

15 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Hi Alex,

how frustrating! you don’t say if your HMD remained the same or if that was also upgraded?   I assume you have checked your cooling is working correctly etc...
 

a couple of easy steps especially if you have upgraded to 2.7 at the same time, uninstall all mods, do a dcs repair (full slow) and rename your current saved games folder. If you check my signature for my 3090 settings you should find some things to explore and test, which might help.

 

do you have fpsvr? It can help you diagnose where things are going badly? In many cases making sure the hygiene steps are done can make a big difference to stability of frametimes which is what drives the FPS...

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

You say that you copied over your saved games folder. There have been multiple reports of problems regarding shaders and performance with people upgrading to 2.7 relating to just that. I would say that first of all you should delete that saved games folder, and let DCS world rebuild it from scratch. It's a pain to rebind your keys and redo all your video settings but in the long run it's worth it if it solves your performance issues. 

I appreciate the suggestions guys, unfortunately these didn't work, nor did a full reinstall. I also tried DDU and reinstallation of SteamVR/WMR for SteamVR. 

I do have the same HMD as before the upgrade - I'm running the Reverb G2. The main reason to swap to a new system was to replace my old case and to upgrade from the i9 9900K to the AMD R9 5950x.

This is fpsVR while sitting at the main menu.

 

 

And Instant Action --> F16 --> Syria --> Free Flight

 

And here are my relevant DCS settings with a PD of 1.0 w/ SteamVR SS set at 150%

 

As I mentioned above, with my old build I would have a solid 90 FPS in the main menu, with negligible frametimes. In game, with the same settings as above, I'd hover around 50-55 typically with frametimes around 14-17ms. I also never noticed reprojection other than on the shorelines in DCS. So I'm really at a loss as to why my system got worse with a brand new install of windows with faster/same hardware. FWIW, DCS and Windows are both running on a PCIE Gen 4 NVME SSD.

[speed-of-heat]

Sorry I want to be clear , with a G2 you were getting a solid 90 FPS at 150% in steam and 4xMSAA and medium shadows and VIS range set at extreme ... I'm genuinely surprised, because that would be  atypically fast for an i9k, 45 FPS would be "very good" ... 90... what Overclock were you running on that?!? LN2 cooling ?!!!

 

But your real problem seems to be your GPU, based on frame times its being murdered by something , at a guess, i would try a couple of things:

 

- turn off PCIE4 and try it at PCIE 3.0, (make sure all devices are set for PCIE 3)

 

- disable rebar in BIOS.

 

- make sure you have the latest MB BIOS.

 

Your CPU time are way faster than mine, which is what i would expect.  if that doesnt work i would seriously consider going back to your golden sample i9k or winding back the 150 to 100% and MSAA to x 2.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[FoxTwo]

150% steam resolution AND msaa 4x?

 

Uh...

 

yeah.

 

Try 100% steam resolution, 80% DCS resolution and msaa 2x.

 

Unless you've got a 6090 in that PC.

Edited April 26, 2021 by FoxTwo

[AlexCaboose]

58 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

Sorry I want to be clear , with a G2 you were getting a solid 90 FPS at 150% in steam and 4xMSAA and medium shadows and VIS range set at extreme ... I'm genuinely surprised, because that would be  atypically fast for an i9k, 45 FPS would be "very good" ... 90... what Overclock were you running on that?!? LN2 cooling ?!!!

 

But your real problem seems to be your GPU, based on frame times its being murdered by something , at a guess, i would try a couple of things:

 

- turn off PCIE4 and try it at PCIE 3.0, (make sure all devices are set for PCIE 3)

 

- disable rebar in BIOS.

 

- make sure you have the latest MB BIOS.

 

Your CPU time are way faster than mine, which is what i would expect.  if that doesnt work i would seriously consider going back to your golden sample i9k or winding back the 150 to 100% and MSAA to x 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, let me reiterate. At the main menu, I was getting a solid 90 FPS - hangar scene with nothing going on. Which is what I personally would expect anyway, as there's really not a whole lot of work to render or very much for the GPU to do there.

45-55 was what I had in DCS while actually flying, scene dependent. The overclock was a 5.0Ghz all core on the 9900K. 
I've tried PCIE 3.0 for all devices. I've also tried rebar both off and on. Motherboard bios is up to date.

 

37 minutes ago, FoxTwo said:

150% steam resolution AND msaa 4x?

 

Uh...

 

yeah.

 

Try 100% steam resolution, 80% DCS resolution and msaa 2x.

 

Unless you've got a 6090 in that PC.

 

Yes, these are the settings I used to run and I got the framerates I mentioned - 45-55 FPS in DCS while actually flying around, scene dependent. 4x MSAA is only within the confines of the render mask anyway and doesn't make a huge difference in terms of FPS vs 2x. Or at least it didn't before. Neither did 150% SteamVR, and the Viper MFDs are a muddy mess with anything much lower than that.

[speed-of-heat]

6 hours ago, AlexCaboose said:

No, let me reiterate. At the main menu, I was getting a solid 90 FPS - hangar scene with nothing going on. Which is what I personally would expect anyway, as there's really not a whole lot of work to render or very much for the GPU to do there.

 

Ok thats clearer and less concerning.

 

Quote

 4x MSAA is only within the confines of the render mask anyway and doesn't make a huge difference in terms of FPS vs 2x.

 

no.... the render mask does not work and never has from a performance point of view... it will  do all the work and then mask it... I would expect MSAA x2 vs MSAA x 4  to have approximately a 2.5ms impact in frame time on a 3090. which still doesnt account for all that you are seeing in terms of GPU frame time ... 

 

Quote

Neither did 150% SteamVR, and the Viper MFDs are a muddy mess with anything much lower than that.

sorry , i dont no what to say, something is eating you GPU frame times, and  if you done everything from reinstalling and reconfiguring and you have done all the hygiene steps etc... it means it’s not DCS, which means it's the delta MB/AMD/Memory times are all i can think of.

 

Have you tried turning off hyper threading? I don’t know what the equivalent is on the amd side of the house?  I know there are some people getting great perf on AMD, so it can be done... which helps you not one whit....

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[imacken]

Well, I am baffled by this thread.  Those settings are HUGELY demanding, and if you were getting 90fps with them, even in the main menu, I am totally amazed.

I tried those settings, and I was getting around 55-60fps with frame times of around 16ms.  With my normal settings (still pretty high including SS @ 100% and MSAA x2) I get 90fps in the menu with frame times of 7-8ms.

[Scrofa]

I'm also baffled, and I was about to write just that. If I recall correctly SS 100% is the setting for the G2 in Steam, and 150% was for the G1. Those settings are really high...

[AlexCaboose]

10 hours ago, imacken said:

Well, I am baffled by this thread.  Those settings are HUGELY demanding, and if you were getting 90fps with them, even in the main menu, I am totally amazed.

I tried those settings, and I was getting around 55-60fps with frame times of around 16ms.  With my normal settings (still pretty high including SS @ 100% and MSAA x2) I get 90fps in the menu with frame times of 7-8ms.

You tried them and got 55-60 at the menu or in game?

4 hours ago, Scrofa said:

I'm also baffled, and I was about to write just that. If I recall correctly SS 100% is the setting for the G2 in Steam, and 150% was for the G1. Those settings are really high...

They’re the same resolution though. The only difference with the G2 is the lenses are better.

[speed-of-heat]

47 minutes ago, AlexCaboose said:

 

They’re the same resolution though. The only difference with the G2 is the lenses are better.

no the default resolution in steam is VERY different with the G1 at a 100% it was about 2208x 2106 , with the G2 at 100% it is 3168 x 3096... just under double the total number of pixels being driven per eye

Edited April 27, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[imacken]

1 hour ago, AlexCaboose said:

You tried them and got 55-60 at the menu or in game?

In the menu.

[ShaunX]

..just a thought, many,many users have had various problems with the G2 and Ryzen 5000 series motherboard USB ports. Personally, my G2 would not function correctly though ANY of my ASUS Prime x570-P's ports. I was only able to resolve the issue by using an external, unpowered USB 3 hub (which may have the same effect as the above suggestion of turning off PCIE4).

 

The list of issues is actually documented here

 

https://airtable.com/shrhQQFoy4SQKIrjZ/tblvehlveGY2s7cu5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scrofa]

2 hours ago, AlexCaboose said:

 

They’re the same resolution though. The only difference with the G2 is the lenses are better.

But you're using the SS 150% that's good for the G1 in the G2, which should have SS 100%, right?

[Werewolf_fs]

hace 13 horas, ShaunX dijo:

... solo un pensamiento, muchos, muchos usuarios han tenido varios problemas con los puertos USB de la placa base de la serie G2 y Ryzen 5000. Personalmente, mi G2 no funcionaría correctamente a través de CUALQUIERA de los puertos de mi ASUS Prime x570-P. Solo pude resolver el problema utilizando un concentrador USB 3 externo sin alimentación (que puede tener el mismo efecto que la sugerencia anterior de apagar PCIE4).

 

La lista de problemas está realmente documentada aquí.

 

https://airtable.com/shrhQQFoy4SQKIrjZ/tblvehlveGY2s7cu5

 

I had similar problems fixed, so far, with usb ext HUB and limiting PCI-E GEN3. But I have solved these problems with the latest BIOS with AGESA 1.2.0.2, relased these last weeks. In my case for a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro (v.f33h). Search your manufacturer for the latest bios update that includes AGESA 1.2.0.2

Edited April 28, 2021 by Werewolf_fs

[ShaunX]

9 minutes ago, Werewolf_fs said:

 

I had similar problems fixed, so far, with usb ext HUB and limiting PCI-E GEN3. But I have solved these problems with the latest BIOS with AGESA 1.2.0.2, relased these last weeks. In my case for a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro (v.f33h). Search your manufacturer for the latest bios update that includes AGESA 1.2.0.2

 

Yeah, it's available for my mobo but currently only beta and I've seen users reporting problems..and of it not resolving the USB issue

[Burt]

150% wow ! thats high. 

Quote " Try 100% steam resolution, 80% DCS resolution and msaa 2x "   This is what I'm using and setting are high/cloud ultra. I getting smooth flight and I don't care about FPS anymore but I think it's around 45-75 fps or 

100% and MSAA x2) I get 90fps in the menu with frame times of 7-8ms.

•  

 After the update 2.7 my fpsvr gpu graph is now in the orange. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Burt

[Burt]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:44 AM, speed-of-heat said:

Rename is better, as it preserves the input config and logbook etc... it also enables you to roll it back

 

What are your renaming your saved game? First time hearing about this.

[speed-of-heat]

rename it to anything you want. I usually add .old to the end  so it becomes DCS.old or DCS.openbeta.old, dcs will regenerate the files it needs and you can build from a clean base.

 

I rename rather than delete because there are some files I want... the input directory and my logbook etc.. but that way i know i actually have a clean install to start with

[Burt]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

rename it to anything you want. I usually add .old to the end  so it becomes DCS.old or DCS.openbeta.old, dcs will regenerate the files it needs and you can build from a clean base.

 

I rename rather than delete because there are some files I want... the input directory and my logbook etc.. but that way i know i actually have a clean install to start with

 

Okay Thats great info thanks as always. Now this is because of the crashes which I'm assuming, so I may have to this, makes sense being 2.7 almost a totally new sim now. 

[speed-of-heat]

I think thats right, it's a guess but it costs you almost nothing to test, and its "safe" as you can always roll back to the "old" saved games directory and you will be no worse off

Edited April 28, 2021 by speed-of-heat