Proper 21-9 Support

[Hiob]

7 hours ago, Donut said:

Thank you all for the examples and in depth explanations.  I understand what FOV is and how it works in DCS.  I just fail to grasp how a wider monitor does not natively display more of an image than a narrower one.

 

I imagine myself looking through the windshield of a car with 1 foot on each side blacked out (16:9), then I look through the same windshield with nothing blacked out (21:9).  The image through the windshield has not changed, I just see more of the view now.  Also, my view of the dashboard would not have changed either.

 

This just does not seem possible in DCS.  

but IT IS.

I literally made you the exact same examples above....

Are you kidding me?

11 hours ago, draconus said:

Hiob might have confused you with changing fov when moving head. He meant the fov measured between viewer's face and the monitor edges. The fov in game stays the same of course. That's why the real fov will only be at one point with the particular monitor. The bigger one will have it further - so you can either sit back or set the higher fov in game.

 

Yes, you got me right.

I meant, there is a "real" physical field of view, which is determined by the window (aka your screen) and your distance to it.

You CAN adjust the virtual (horizontal) FOV inside DCS to match that, if you WANT to. (...the vertical FOV is then DETERMINED by the shape/hight of your screen)*

*to be precise - by your resolution, but usually those are close dependent

 

EDIT:

And as a rule of thumb (applicable to every module): ~ 60 degree FOV (16:9) for "realism", 80-120 degree FOV for "comfort".....

Edited May 20, 2021 by Hiob

[Donut]

51 minutes ago, Hiob said:

but IT IS.

I literally made you the exact same examples above....

Are you kidding me?

 

My example does not change the zoom level, yours does and that is the problem I am having in understanding all of this.  The FOV adjustment seems to be a workaround instead of actual 21:9 monitor support.  

[Wrcknbckr]

17 minutes ago, Donut said:

My example does not change the zoom level, yours does and that is the problem I am having in understanding all of this.  The FOV adjustment seems to be a workaround instead of actual 21:9 monitor support.  

Let's get back to the blacked-out windshield of your car. Stretch your arms forward to the blacked out view. OK. Now move your arms sideways to your full view. Do you notice your arms are wider now? That's your FOV change, needed to acquire the full view. Your instruments are still the same size. The vertical is automatically adjusted by your aspect setting, no need for a cutoff. DCS does not adapt FOV to do this automatically cause it has no knowledge of a tiny 21:9 or a BIG 21:9 screen, that's for your to set.

[some1]

For the third or fourth time in this thread: FOV adjustment is the reason why you can see more on an ultrawide screen. That's 21:9 support. There is no other way. It's 3D computer graphics 101. 

Some games increase FOV automatically, in some games you have to tweak the "FOV" slider yourself. DCS automatically increases default horizontal FOV in the cockpit, and lets you make further adjustments to FOV with the zoom keys or config edits. 

 

Here are my two screenshots I made yesterday overlapped over each other. The green area is the extra you get by default on a ultrawide monitor. 

But this is only default FOV setting. You can always increase it or decrease it on any monitor you have, ultrawide or not, depending on the screen size and your preference. 

 

[draconus]

49 minutes ago, Donut said:

My example does not change the zoom level,

Yes, they do. You don't see anything closer/bigger - like you would with zoom change on one screen - because both horizontal fov and screen width has been changed. There's no other way to render more on the sides without the fov increase. You still see the same 16:9 part of the image on the wider screen because the vertical fov is the same with the new aspect and same screen height.

[Hiob]

...I'm starting to think @Donut is mocking us...

 

Either that, or doesn't get the concepts of FOV and "zoom" in computer graphics...

I give up.

 

 

EDIT: SORRY to all, I chose the wrong words here - and Bignewy was so kind to make me aware and edit it. I apologize!

Edited May 20, 2021 by Hiob
1.2

[Donut]

4 minutes ago, Hiob said:

...I'm starting to think @Donut is mocking us...

 

Either that, or he/she/it doesn't get the concepts of FOV and "zoom" in computer graphics...

I give up.

 

Oh goodness, I am not mocking you and truly apologize for the frustration I am causing.  Thank you for sticking with this topic.

 

I think I understand things now.  The monitor represents the human eye.  What I was trying to do was keep the actual FOV of my real eyes and view the monitor as a window into the DCS world.  Draw the curtains back (wider monitor) and more of the DCS world is made visible to my real eyes.  As many of you have explained (many times), that isn't how the view works with computers.  
 

With my wider monitor (representing my eyes) I need to use the DCS FOV to "draw the curtains back" to make more of the DCS world visible.

[Hiob]

Yes.

Kind of....

 

The important difference to the real window and computer graphics is, that you can influence the FOV. The computer doesn't care if it is "real" or "realistic".

But if you want to benefit from your physically wider screen - the software HAS to render a wider FOV, and either the software itself or the user has to determine which FOV is suitable...

and this is, where different games handle things differently.

 

EDIT: ...and perhaps another important distinction. In real live optics, FOV and Zoom are not the same, nor are they neccessarily linked (I think that focal length is an important thing here, but I'm not sure, how or if this is in any way applied in DCS),

I think Zoom is more or less only achieved by changing the FOV.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Hiob

[Gwalker99]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:54 AM, Hiob said:

 

That's exactly, where you and OP are wrong and @draconus is right.

The fov determines the horizontal viewing angle. To match it with your physical reality you have to calculate the width of your monitor and your distance from the screen.

 

Say you have the exact same monitor hight and viewing distance, the 21:9 is obviously wider - meaning that your "window" in the DCS World is wider, meaning you have a wider horizontal fov. The Setting of fov has to match that.

 

Unlinking the horizontal zoom from the vertical would lead to distortion.

 

Edit: You can easily calculate the "correct" fov-setting. (correct means "realistic" in regards to your monitor width and viewing distance - doesn't mean that it's useful in a simulation context)

 

Edit2: In regards of the custom setting of views (fov e.g.) for each individual plane I recommend the thread "Proper Neck Mod".

 

I have a 3xxx/14xxx 21:9 monitor.. what should I set in game? 

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Gwalker99 said:

I have a 3xxx/14xxx 21:9 monitor.. what should I set in game? 

Start with right proportions (aspect) - to see the circle as a circle, not ellipse - it's probably set automatically for you. If already have that, change fov with Numpad "/" "*" keys to see how it fits for you.

[Flappie]

@draconusIt seems his issue is better formulated here:

 

He cannot find 21:9 ratio in DCS options.