DCS: G-91R

[CarloVecchi]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Saguanay:

 

What a beautiful skin! 

[Volator]

Found this by coincidence on the Italian forum:

That might possibly mean more delay, but if it also means an increase in quality, then so be it. I'm very much looking forward to the Gina. Along with the F-4, the F-104 and the Tornado, a German AF cold-war afficionado can hardly ask for more... well, maybe also for an official Alpha Jet A module, but I'm happy with what's to come.

[CarloVecchi]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Volator:

That might possibly mean more delay, but if it also means an increase in quality, then so be it. I'm very much looking forward to the Gina. Along with the F-4, the F-104 and the Tornado, a German AF cold-war afficionado can hardly ask for more... well, maybe also for an official Alpha Jet A module, but I'm happy with what's to come.

For sure that means mooore delay, sounds like they´re doing a complete new model instead of using Sim Skunkworks model....

 

[6S.Duke]

For sure that means mooore delay, sounds like they´re doing a complete new model instead of using Sim Skunkworks model....
 

The SSW model it wasn't suitable for DCS as lacking of many details

Inviato dal mio SM-F731B utilizzando Tapatalk

[CarloVecchi]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb 6S.Duke:

The SSW model it wasn't suitable for DCS as lacking of many details

Inviato dal mio SM-F731B utilizzando Tapatalk
 

I understood. DCS moved very fast forward in terms of detailing & systems etc.
Anyway still looking forward to the Gina. 

[6S.Duke]

Other two pictures to show the level of detail after the refactoring

Inviato dal mio SM-F731B utilizzando Tapatalk

[Johnny Dioxin]

I used to enjoy watching the Luftwaffe machines frequent visits to Gütersloh in the late '70's. Was also the first aircraft model I built. I did buy the one by SSW for the civvy sim and was rather underwhelmed, though - I'm really hoping that was due to that platform's limitations, and hope it's actually more impressive in DCS World.

[YSIAD_RIP]

l love the F-86 but am tired of the outdated cockpit textures.  When the G.91 comes out it will be my "replacement" for the F-86.. 

[Mig Fulcrum]

Don't really know how the G.91 would perform against an F-86, it's much lighter for sure but it has a slightly less powerful engine. On paper it seems to be better, maybe a bit slower, but I don't know in terms of energy retention and nose authority how it perform

[flanker0ne]

[Bremspropeller]

On 5/17/2024 at 12:51 AM, Mig Fulcrum said:

Don't really know how the G.91 would perform against an F-86, it's much lighter for sure but it has a slightly less powerful engine. On paper it seems to be better, maybe a bit slower, but I don't know in terms of energy retention and nose authority how it perform

The Gina will have somewhat high wing-loading, no LE devices and probably won't have heaters - can't remember if they were announced or not.

It's only about 75% the size of a Sabre, though, so sneaking up at low altitude against opponents way above your weight will be a thing. As they were IRL.

Most limiting will be the fuel, especially when dunking along at low altitude.

[Bigskill]

Il 03/08/2025 at 03:11, Bremspropeller ha scritto:

The Gina will have somewhat high wing-loading, no LE devices and probably won't have heaters - can't remember if they were announced or not.

It's only about 75% the size of a Sabre, though, so sneaking up at low altitude against opponents way above your weight will be a thing. As they were IRL.

Most limiting will be the fuel, especially when dunking along at low altitude.

AIM9B should be planned for what was confirmed few month ago.

[mayo25]

On 5/16/2024 at 11:51 PM, Mig Fulcrum said:

Don't really know how the G.91 would perform against an F-86, it's much lighter for sure but it has a slightly less powerful engine. On paper it seems to be better, maybe a bit slower, but I don't know in terms of energy retention and nose authority how it perform

From FAP pilots whom flow both types, the F-86 was a lot superior in air to air combat !

When will this project be finished ? After 4 years , we have no news !

[Otto pallen]

15 ore fa, mayo25 ha scritto:

When will this project be finished ? After 4 years , we have no news !

In Italy there is a proverb that says "Aspetta e spera" Wait and hope 

[Smyth]

Regarding G.91 performance -

There is an unfortunate dearth of good primary-source performance data for the G91 on the internet. Attempting to satisfy my curiosity, I put together a simple table of physical data to compare the G.91R to F86 and MiG-15. This is all easy enough to find, but I'll leave it here if it saves someone else 15min in Excel.

-	F-86F-25	G.91R/1B	MiG-15bis
Clean takeoff weight (lb)	15175	10677	11120
Wingspan (ft)	39.1	28.1	33.1
Wing reference area (ft^2)	313	177	222
Wing Sweep Angle (Deg)	35	37	35
Thickness/chord	11-12%	11-12%	12%
Engine	J47-GE-27	Orpheus Mk. 803	VK-1
Nominal sea level static thrust (lbf)	6090	5000	5950
Usable internal fuel (lb)	2827	2919	2584
50% fuel weight (lb)	13762	9218	9828
Wing aspect ratio	4.88	4.46	4.93
Takeoff T/W	0.40	0.47	0.54
50% T/W	0.44	0.54	0.61
50% wing loading	44.0	52.1	44.3
50% wingspan/weight	2.84E-03	3.05E-03	3.37E-03

The takeaways in my mind are:

• The G.91 falls between the F-86 and MiG-15 in both thrust-to-weight and wingspan-to-weight ratios. Since the wings are all a similar ~35% swept profile without leading edge devices, I would be surprised if energy retention, sustained turn rate, and low speed acceleration don't all follow the same trend (i.e. somewhere between the -86 and -15).

• G.91 wing loading is slightly higher than the -86 and -15, but on the other hand the flight manuals for the G.91 and un-slatted F86F both show 130kt stall speed at takeoff weight without flaps so in reality there doesn't seem to be a difference in maximum lift.

• G.91R actually carries a lot of fuel for its tiny size (depending on version, either slightly less or slightly more than the Sabre).

Amusingly enough, most of this is exactly what you expect from a 3/4 scale model of an F86. Unfortunately due to typical scale-model-aircraft physics that probably also means a notably lower top speed, but I couldn't find a clear and reliable source to confirm how much slower.

Basically, it won't match a MiG-15 very well, but it wasn't meant to. For all the contemporary aircraft that can't out-turn it (and that is most of them), the G.91 could be an absolute gremlin to fight in multiplayer. It is absurdly tiny, carries outsized armament (depending on the version), and is apparently extremely forgiving to fly -- basically a trainer with transonic performance.

 

[Volator]

On 10/10/2025 at 6:26 AM, Smyth said:

G.91R actually carries a lot of fuel for its tiny size

In the GAF however, the Gina was infamous for its very short legs. Armed with four LAU-51 (so no external tanks), its combat radius was about 75NM. It was therefore general consensus in the GAF that the Gina would operate from forward landing grounds close to the frontline in case of war (source: Klaus Kropf, Deutsche G.91. Die Gina in der Luftwaffe, 2017, p.117). 

I don't expect the G.91R to be a good dogfighter against Sabres and MIG-15. It was designed primarily as a simple, easy-to-maintain, rugged and reliable CAS aircraft.

[Bremspropeller]

The G91 had "short legs" because those forward operating bases (some of them grass strips) didn't materialize and weren't deemed neccessary anymore in the greater scheme after the shift towards Flexible Response. Hence the aircraft was forced to operate from it's main bases fairly far away from the line of contact.

Whether it was a good dogfighter is pretty hard to figure: It didn't have any hardware to make use of getting into an avantageous position: No LCOS and no (within GAF) AA missiles. Removing one cannon (and prohibiting shooting of the remaining one) to fit TACAN didn't help with the combat value.
It was very small and had - clean - pretty good subsonic performance as can be seen above in Smyth's analysis.

As with the Alpha Jet, many pointy jet people within Luftwaffe never figured the use of an aircraft that was simple, reliable and could just GO NOW and fly 8 sorties a day. Had there been more ingenuity and imagination (and moreso: the willingnes to spend some cash), the Alph could have been an awesome jet.

Like the Gina, the Alph would also have been an awesome asset for low intensity conflicts (e.g. Afghanistan). But I'm digressing...

[TLTeo]

Looking at the charts I can find for the R3, 75nm seems to assume a lo-lo-lo mission (which to be fair isn't the worst assumption for the G91, but it does require some context). There are only charts for clean and 2x tanks, and those have a range of 310 and 370nm at SL respectively, going up to 600 and 800nm at 30k ft (so ~150 combat radius clean, make it 100 with some loiter time, make it 75 with the extra drag of the rocket launchers ig). You could easily extend your combat radius out to idk 100-130nm or so with a hi-lo-hi profile though. 

[Otto pallen]

Il 21/10/2025 at 13:02, Bremspropeller ha scritto:

Come il Gina, anche l'Alph sarebbe stato un'arma straordinaria per i conflitti a bassa intensità (ad esempio in Afghanistan). Ma sto divagando...

In the Afghan theater, even the much-maligned AMX managed to give its best: no anti-aircraft guns, maximum control of the airspace, sometimes it wasn't even necessary to drop bombs, the mere noise of passing over the Taliban was enough to make them retreat.

[TLTeo]

I could go on and on about the AMX, it really was the perfect aircraft for its era. Cheap, easy to deploy and maintain, and also surprisingly capable - iirc it was the first AMI jet to employ precision guided munitions (during Allied Force), and by the late 2000s/early 2010s when it got the avionics updates with TGPs, JDAM etc (around the same time the A-10 got all those...) it was extremely capable as well.