PSA: F-14 Performance/FM Development Status + Guided Discussion

[Spurts]

This explains why that video got a few views this week

[lunaticfringe]

1 hour ago, Spurts said:

This explains why that video got a few views this week

Spends pages talking ish to you. Uses your work to tell us what is already known. 

Love it.  

[maxsin72]

1 hour ago, lunaticfringe said:

Spends pages talking ish to you. Uses your work to tell us what is already known. 

Love it.  

As usual your posts are always pointless.

I have posted a tacview file and GGTharos asked me a graph, so i have posted that graph, so not everybody knows "what is already known"

I have seldom seen someone as useless and opinionated as you.

So please, if you are not even able to read what is written, be quiet: it's better for you and for everybody.

Love it

Edited December 27, 2022 by maxsin72

[Frosty2124]

11 minutes ago, maxsin72 said:

As usual your posts are always pointless.

I have posted a tacview file and GGTharos asked me a graph, so i have posted that graph, so not everybody knows "what is already known"

I have seldom seen someone as useless and opinionated as you.

So please, if you are not even able to read what is written, be quiet: it's better for you and for everybody.

Love it

 

more fantastic hypocrisy.

Love it 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Frosty2124

[maxsin72]

1 minute ago, Frosty2124 said:

more fantastic hypocrisy from OP

Love it 

More fantastic nonsense post: i was right and you was wrong

Love it

Edited December 27, 2022 by maxsin72

[Frosty2124]

Just now, maxsin72 said:

More fantastic non sense post: i was right and you was wrong

Love it

in what facet was i wrong pray tell?

try not to be salty, this forum is for intellectual and calm discussion. and it's bad for you blood pressure.

you've been advised to suck it up and move on, let all try and do that.

[maxsin72]

22 hours ago, Frosty2124 said:

yes... the developer is telling you that it is more relevant elsewhere, surely you wanting to find a solution would appreciate being directed to the best place to answer your question.

the hypocrisy in this statement is not lost on me, and hopefully most of the community

 

16 minutes ago, Frosty2124 said:

in what facet was i wrong pray tell?

try not to be salty, this forum is for intellectual and calm discussion. and it's bad for you blood pressure.

you've been advised to suck it up and move on, let all try and do that.

 

On 12/26/2022 at 5:23 PM, Frosty2124 said:

did you really just tell the developer of the f14 that they're wrong about whether or not they can help you? I'm curious, what experience do you have that puts you ahead of the module SME's

 

19 minutes ago, Frosty2124 said:

more fantastic hypocrisy.

Love it 

 

You were the first to be salty with me telling me i'm an hypocrit, so expect do be treated in the same way you treated me.

Are you able to read and understand or no?

If the last answer i received would have been the first and the only one, i would have said thanks, but something different happened because i was invited to post my questions on F18 forum.

So please stop to write nonsense words, sorry but i must repeat you: i'm right and you are wrong

Edited December 27, 2022 by maxsin72

[eatthis]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:03 PM, IronMike said:

We know the transsonic drag issues. We said we’ll fix it. And it’s still within completely acceptable limits and won’t break or make your game, which you finally need to accept @maxsin72. How it compares to other modules is utterly irrelevant to us. Please be so kind and be patient until we get around to fixing it like we promised. Beating a dead horse until then, won’t make us fix it faster. Thank you. 

is it a noticeable issue or a minor thing?

 

[IronMike]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:13 PM, maxsin72 said:

Thank you sincerely, this is the right answer

 

 

Only that we have given you this answer dozens of times over @maxsin72 - and you keep coming back for it, regurgitating long known facts to us, posting long known videos, trying to judge who is right and who is wrong, when it doesn’t fit your narrative, because you are impatient, and can’t accept that folks give you some backlash over it, because it’s blatantly obvious. I get it, it’s hard to wait. And we’d wish to get to it faster as well. But calling folks useless and antagonizing them, over their calling you out over the redundancy of your comments, is not ok, since in fact it’s precisely your attempt of beating a dead horse over and over which is fairly useless at this point. And I mean that in the kindest way possible.

Everyone else here is patient, except you. And if you feel that the hornet does this or that in comparison, again, none of our business. Go see on the F18 forums if it overperforms or not. The graph you posted was not even remotely related to your encounter. No circumstances were given for your encounter, at least not enough to make it relevant within the discussion of the F14’s performance. 

You know I like you, and I admire your passion, I understand where you are coming from. But in all fairness, this time, they are right and you are wrong. Which btw is nothing more than a very childish notion and completely irrelevant to us as well. This is what folks have been trying to tell you. And what I am telling you now as well. 

Most likely the hornet pulling away from you wasn’t even performance related but circumstantial. 

It’s simply a matter of how to go about it. Asking: hey, is this hornet pulling away from me due to a performance deficit of the Tomcat? - would have certainly gained you more support from your peers and more interest in the matter from our side. 
 

There is nothing unknown to us regarding performance at this time. And maybe we missed something, but you know both our position and upcoming course of action. So be patient please and stop beating a dead horse, because all it does is cost me time, which in this case was me interrupting Christmas family time for you on top of it. And I am happy to do that for you, but I kindly ask you to keep a positive attitude with your fellow forum members in return. 

Likewise, everybody else: please stay kind to each other, I know that Maxsin means well in general, please keep that in mind. 

Be nice to each other please, everyone, and rest assured that we will fix remaining issues as soon as we get to it as we promised. Likewise rest assured that the current performance deficit, fixed or not, is not significant enough to make or break your game. 

And even more importantly: enjoy the Holiday season and enjoy flying and have fun. 

[IronMike]

19 minutes ago, eatthis said:

is it a noticeable issue or a minor thing?

 

A bit of both I would say. it’s noticeable in the transonic region and in terms of reaching certain mach speeds with external stores drag (as in how long it takes you to reach them), but as mentioned not significant enough that it would make or break your game. 

[WarthogOsl]

43 minutes ago, IronMike said:

A bit of both I would say. it’s noticeable in the transonic region and in terms of reaching certain mach speeds with external stores drag (as in how long it takes you to reach them), but as mentioned not significant enough that it would make or break your game. 

With regards to the external stores drag, esp. stores held in the tunnel, is there any chance you will be able to adjust that in the future?  For example, do you think the missile API will allow for varying the parasitic drag of missiles depending on whether they are stored or flying?

We were discussing this a while back on the DCS F-14 discord, and I went as far as suggest something like a virtual weapons bay, which could "hide" the tunnel mounted missiles from causing some amount of form drag before they are launched (I figured the Mosquito must do it, given it has an actual weapons bay) .  I'm not sure that'd be an all or nothing prospect, in which case it'd probably be not any more realistic.

[maxsin72]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

Only that we have given you this answer dozens of times over @maxsin72 - and you keep coming back for it, regurgitating long known facts to us, posting long known videos, trying to judge who is right and who is wrong, when it doesn’t fit your narrative, because you are impatient, and can’t accept that folks give you some backlash over it, because it’s blatantly obvious. I get it, it’s hard to wait. And we’d wish to get to it faster as well. But calling folks useless and antagonizing them, over their calling you out over the redundancy of your comments, is not ok, since in fact it’s precisely your attempt of beating a dead horse over and over which is fairly useless at this point. And I mean that in the kindest way possible.

Everyone else here is patient, except you. And if you feel that the hornet does this or that in comparison, again, none of our business. Go see on the F18 forums if it overperforms or not. The graph you posted was not even remotely related to your encounter. No circumstances were given for your encounter, at least not enough to make it relevant within the discussion of the F14’s performance. 

You know I like you, and I admire your passion, I understand where you are coming from. But in all fairness, this time, they are right and you are wrong. Which btw is nothing more than a very childish notion and completely irrelevant to us as well. This is what folks have been trying to tell you. And what I am telling you now as well. 

Most likely the hornet pulling away from you wasn’t even performance related but circumstantial. 

It’s simply a matter of how to go about it. Asking: hey, is this hornet pulling away from me due to a performance deficit of the Tomcat? - would have certainly gained you more support from your peers and more interest in the matter from our side. 
 

There is nothing unknown to us regarding performance at this time. And maybe we missed something, but you know both our position and upcoming course of action. So be patient please and stop beating a dead horse, because all it does is cost me time, which in this case was me interrupting Christmas family time for you on top of it. And I am happy to do that for you, but I kindly ask you to keep a positive attitude with your fellow forum members in return. 

Likewise, everybody else: please stay kind to each other, I know that Maxsin means well in general, please keep that in mind. 

Be nice to each other please, everyone, and rest assured that we will fix remaining issues as soon as we get to it as we promised. Likewise rest assured that the current performance deficit, fixed or not, is not significant enough to make or break your game. 

And even more importantly: enjoy the Holiday season and enjoy flying and have fun. 

Sorry Ironmike but i don't agree with you.

1 I asked a question in a polite way, I was told to go and ask it on another forum. I replied this was not a good answer and your peers became salty against me, so who is judging who? Not me for first.

2 You told to be patient: the last FM update was in 2021, the next one will be in 2023, please don't use the word "patient" because i think i was patient.

3 The guys you are talking about are the ones who usually write to go against the ones who not agree with HB.

4 The known video was posted because a user asked for a graph: the graph is in the known video.

5 I appreciate really much your job but this does not means we can't talk about problems and post tacview files, i was invited to post tacview files by the ones who are now kidding me.

6 I don't have any peers, i don't care at all about peers, simply i'm used to write honestly what i think.

7 I'm always kind with everybody, i was not the first who was not kind.

8 After your last answer i told you thank you, I was sincere and for me the matter was closed: the next time please tell to lunaticfringe and the others to remain quiet instead to be salty for nothing.

That said, i'm sorry all this was interrupting your Christmas family time, i think your family time is much more important than an answer about the FM. So please, the next time, don't worry about answer fast.

I wish you and your family all the best and a Happy New Year

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by maxsin72

[IronMike]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:20 AM, maxsin72 said:

Sorry Ironmike but i don't agree with you.

1 I asked a question in a polite way, I was told to go and ask it on another forum. I replied this was not a good answer and your peers became salty against me, so who is judging who? Not me for first.

2 You told to be patient: the last FM update was in 2021, the next one will be in 2023, please don't use the word "patient" because i think i was patient.

3 The guys you are talking about are the ones who usually write to go against the ones who not agree with HB.

4 The known video was posted because a user asked for a graph: the graph is in the known video.

5 I appreciate really much your job but this does not means we can't talk about problems and post tacview files, i was invited to post tacview files by the ones who are now kidding me.

6 I don't have any peers, i don't care at all about peers, simply i'm used to write honestly what i think.

7 I'm always kind with everybody, i was not the first who was not kind.

8 After your last answer i told you thank you, I was sincere and for me the matter was closed: the next time please tell to lunaticfringe and the others to remain quiet instead to be salty for nothing.

That said, i'm sorry all this was interrupting your Christmas family time, i think your family time is much more important than an answer about the FM. So please, the next time, don't worry about answer fast.

I wish you and your family all the best and a Happy New Year

 

 

It’s all good with me bud, no need to apologize. I’m just trying to explain why some folks react like they do. And as you’ve read, I told them to be nice to you in the same breath, we should all be nice to each other here, bottom line. 

As for Christmas time, I happily interrupt it for you guys, anytime. Just the drama I can do a bit without this time of the year, which is not a remark to you, but everybody. Afterall, it’s supposed to be a time where we all try and share in love and peace and come together, hehe. In that sense, you all are sitting with me around our Christmas tree in my thoughts.

[Spurts]

Awww, thanks @IronMike!  Looking forward to another year of Tomcatting around waiting for other Naval HB projects.

[Callsign JoNay]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:41 AM, IronMike said:

I sure hope not that long. It is actively on our minds and we talked with @fat creason very recently about it, but I cannot give you an estimate. Hopefully around end of the year, beginning next year. We all want to get it finally behind ourselves, too, Maxsin.

Just checking in to see if any progress has been made. Are we still on track for the beginning of 2023?

[IronMike]

6 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

Just checking in to see if any progress has been made. Are we still on track for the beginning of 2023?

Yes. @fat creason is working on it as we speak.

[FlankerKiller]

I just want to point out that this entire thread is a perfect example of why I love older jets in DCS. People at throwing up EM graghs. Finding small errors at certain flight regimes. It's awesome to be able to actually compare the modules data to the real things data. Unlike some other modules. That and the jets are just interesting. The Cold War is heating up in DCS, and the Tomcat already has a huge head start. I can wait to see the improvements that are coming to the old bird. 

[IronMike]

We will have a new performance guided discussion thread up later today, and are closing this in the meantime, as it already has so many pages and makes looking through and overview cumbersome. Stay tuned for a more detailed FM update thread later today. Thank you!