Anti-ship capacity?

[Tank50us]

Will the F-16 get the Harpoon (max of 2) and Penguin (max of 4) Anti-ship missiles? I know that the USAF may not have used it much (after all they have platforms that can carry many more missiles than a Falcon can), but other nations do have that capability, being island nations and all. If this is on the roadmap, then please disregard, but if not.... why?

 

Anyway, feel free to discuss everyone.

[b0bl00i]

I think the only thing we can hope for is Mavericks in SEA mode.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

25 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Will the F-16 get the Harpoon (max of 2) and Penguin (max of 4) Anti-ship missiles? I know that the USAF may not have used it much (after all they have platforms that can carry many more missiles than a Falcon can), but other nations do have that capability, being island nations and all. If this is on the roadmap, then please disregard, but if not.... why?

 

Anyway, feel free to discuss everyone.

The other nations has diferent systems, hardware and software changes, and special adapters.
https://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article12.html
 

Penguin require software integration
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADP002275

 

[Smoked]

59 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Will the F-16 get the Harpoon (max of 2) and Penguin (max of 4) Anti-ship missiles? I know that the USAF may not have used it much (after all they have platforms that can carry many more missiles than a Falcon can), but other nations do have that capability, being island nations and all. If this is on the roadmap, then please disregard, but if not.... why?

 

Anyway, feel free to discuss everyone.

Here is the roadmap and list... 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Smoked

[Bunny Clark]

US F-16s were never fitted to carry Harpoon or Penguin, so we won't be getting it. Other nations do have that capability, but there are a lot of different F-16 variations in service around the world, all with slightly different or significantly different system configurations than our USAF Block 50 Viper. 

 

You can shoot Harpoons in the Hornet though. 

[Tank50us]

8 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

US F-16s were never fitted to carry Harpoon or Penguin, so we won't be getting it. Other nations do have that capability, but there are a lot of different F-16 variations in service around the world, all with slightly different or significantly different system configurations than our USAF Block 50 Viper. 

 

You can shoot Harpoons in the Hornet though. 

 

Maybe we should get the F2A Viper Zero then, and it's custom anti-ship toys

[ebabil]

we are getting a fictional ka-50 v3 but we can't get a harpoon to our vipers  

[Silver_Dragon]

 

4 hours ago, ebabil said:

we are getting a fictional ka-50 v3 but we can't get a harpoon to our vipers  

ED never go to add antiship missiles on F-16CM USAF aircrafts.

Edited June 23, 2021 by BIGNEWY
removed tolling quote

[Tank50us]

16 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

 

ED never go to add antiship missiles on F-16CM USAF aircrafts.

 

I don't really see a reason why they couldn't. If it's a software issue, then it really wouldn't matter as that is something that would be loaded into the planes computer system. I can certainly understand it if it's a hardware issue though, as in, the computer simply can't be programmed and those features installed to the aircraft.

 

Update, the version we have is the Block 50, and according to F-16.net, two, maybe three customers use the Harpoon on their Block 50s: https://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article12.html

 

And it seems the USAF did tests with the Harpoon on the F-16, as the photos there show. So even though it's not a normal load, it does seem to be an available one for some customers, and a "In a pinch" load for the USAF.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Tank50us

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

 

I don't really see a reason why they couldn't. If it's a software issue, then it really wouldn't matter as that is something that would be loaded into the planes computer system. I can certainly understand it if it's a hardware issue though, as in, the computer simply can't be programmed and those features installed to the aircraft.

USAF never has required or integrated that system on your aircrafts, your manual never talk about them and actually has a system use by a external air force. Remember, ED has make a  F-16C Block 50 operated by the United States Air Force and Air National Guard circa 2007. no a Turk, Grecce or other "antiship" harpoon capable air force.

[ebabil]

That is exactly what i am saying. When did Ruaf use our upcoming ka-50 version? So it could be done when they decide to do

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, ebabil said:

That is exactly what i am saying. When did Ruaf use our upcoming ka-50 version? So it could be done when they decide to do

F-16 module has nothing to do with Ka-50.

[BIGNEWY]

Planned systems and weapons can be found here for our viper

 

Please dont derail the thread with the BS3 comments, you will either want to upgrade to the BS3 or you wont, its completely optional. 

[Tank50us]

@BIGNEWYfrom the research you guys have done on the Falcon, would such a thing be a software update in the aircraft to install irl? Or would it require more modification to the aircraft in order to accept the missiles?

[Alpiinoo]

Harpoon will be good. But never...

[Silver_Dragon]

@BIGNEWYfrom the research you guys have done on the Falcon, would such a thing be a software update in the aircraft to install irl? Or would it require more modification to the aircraft in order to accept the missiles?

The only block 50 harpoon capable has de HAF vipers. The USAF viper never get software, adapters and integration

https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7170



Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

[Bunny Clark]

21 hours ago, Tank50us said:

And it seems the USAF did tests with the Harpoon on the F-16, as the photos there show. So even though it's not a normal load, it does seem to be an available one for some customers, and a "In a pinch" load for the USAF.

Yup, Harpoon integration was actually started as a USAF project, and was partially completed. Ultimately the USAF decided that anti-shipping was not a role the F-16 was ever likely to carry out in US service and the program was ended before the aircraft was certified to carry it. Eventually, seeing an opportunity in the foreign market, Lockheed completed the integration and software modifications themselves in order to add Harpoon as a possible feature for other customers. Several foreign customers have ordered F-16s with Harpoon capability, a few of them are Block 50s, but none are identical to USAF Vipers nor are they running the same software suite. 

 

I think USAF Vipers could carry it with "just" a software upgrade. That's a more complex task than it sounds like though, as the USAF jets are running a pretty different software suite than any of the foreign jets, and test and deployment of a new software "tape" is not trivial. I'm not sure what kind of pinch the USAF would be in that would even inspire them to attempt such a thing. Harpoon is a legacy weapon at this point, better options are available from multiple platforms. If a ship needs sinking by an aircraft the job is going to fall to a Navy or Marine Hornet, a Navy P-8, or a USAF B-1. 

[Tank50us]

4 minutes ago, Bunny Clark said:

I'm not sure what kind of pinch the USAF would be in that would even inspire them to attempt such a thing. Harpoon is a legacy weapon at this point, better options are available from multiple platforms. If a ship needs sinking by an aircraft the job is going to fall to a Navy or Marine Hornet, a Navy P-8, or a USAF B-1. 

 

The 'in a pinch' just refers to the unlikely scenario that those aircraft either aren't around, or otherwise not available, but the F-16s (somehow) are in a particular location. Or, if such a massive fleet (like the one the Chinese have been building, or that the Soviets had at their height), were to attack that you'd need every possible aircraft in the air that can fling harpoons as you can get.

Obviously, in a situation where the enemy ships are in port or clustered together in a single location (and not moving), the F-16 could get by with HARMs and MK84s, but if an enemy fleet is on the move, and sufficiently sized, you might need more planes with the capability to attack it from a safe distance, and the Harpoon would most certainly give you (the pilot) that.

[Silver_Dragon]

3 hours ago, Tank50us said:

 

The 'in a pinch' just refers to the unlikely scenario that those aircraft either aren't around, or otherwise not available, but the F-16s (somehow) are in a particular location. Or, if such a massive fleet (like the one the Chinese have been building, or that the Soviets had at their height), were to attack that you'd need every possible aircraft in the air that can fling harpoons as you can get.

Obviously, in a situation where the enemy ships are in port or clustered together in a single location (and not moving), the F-16 could get by with HARMs and MK84s, but if an enemy fleet is on the move, and sufficiently sized, you might need more planes with the capability to attack it from a safe distance, and the Harpoon would most certainly give you (the pilot) that.

 

If a enemy move a fleet (hypotetical mega chinesse / Russian fleet to "america invasion") to a CONUS zone.
Antiship capable Aircrafts:

USAF:
-59x B-1s with 24xAGM-158C
-165x F-15E with 2xAGM-84 Harpoon
-1x F-15EX with 2xAGM-84 Harpoon
-283x F-35 with 2xAGM-158C
-74x B-52H 12xAGM-84 Harpoon

Us Navy
- 18x F-35C with 2xAGM-158C / 2x JSM Naval Strike Missile
- 532x F/A-18E with 4xAGM-84 Harpoon
- 41x P-3 with 6xAGM-84 Harpoon
- 91x P-8 with 4xAGM-84 Harpoon

Us Marine corps
- 91x F/A-18 with 4xAGM-84 Harpoon
- 102x AV-8B with 4xAGM-65 Mavericks
- 81x F-35B with 2xAGM-158C / 2x JSM Naval Strike Missile

The 939 F-16 can armed with mavericks. I dont count other antiship weapons as mines, JDAMs, JSOWs or SBDs.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Silver_Dragon

[Bunny Clark]

9 hours ago, Tank50us said:

The 'in a pinch' just refers to the unlikely scenario that those aircraft either aren't around, or otherwise not available, but the F-16s (somehow) are in a particular location. 

In that incredibly unlikely scenario, it's not like someone just needs to flip a switch to enable Harpoon capability on all USAF Vipers. It would take more time and effort to write new software to merge Harpoon code with the existing Block 50 CCIP codebase and distribute it to the relevant aircraft than it would to just move assets that are ASM capable into position. 

 

The US has also had significant success using LGBs in anti-ship warfare with Iran in the past. That's a more difficult proposition against a modern missile armed surface combatant, but if the F-16 can get in a position to employ a bomb the result will be very effective. 

[toilet2000]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:45 AM, ebabil said:

That is exactly what i am saying. When did Ruaf use our upcoming ka-50 version? So it could be done when they decide to do

 

The Ka-50 is a prototype, there never was a single production variant of the Ka-50, as they were basically test beds for the autopilot system and other stuff that would be put in the Ka-52. Not a single Ka-50 was the same, and all got different test configurations over their life.

That's why there are certain liberties with the Ka-50: the real aircraft doesn't have a specific configuration or version with specific features.

 

The F-16CM Block 50 in ANG/USAF does have specific capabilities and configurations/software versions.

[ebabil]

Mods don't want us to get ka-50 involve to this thread, so I am not going to continue discussing this further. But I am sorry this is just nonsense. They are doing it because they want to do it. Every airframe has/had test versions for different weapons sensors etc. I am sure that they tried many stuff on usaf vipers also. 

[Spectre1-1]

militaries test everything under the sun, and the sun itself as a weapon

saying that "aircraft X has unrealistic stuff therefore my favorite one can have it" is weapons grade whataboutism

 

even if we were to leave that, how do you know that the software exists to use it ? or what would it look like ? what about its integration with other sensors ?

[Smoked]

13 hours ago, ebabil said:

Mods don't want us to get ka-50 involve to this thread, so I am not going to continue discussing this further. But I am sorry this is just nonsense. They are doing it because they want to do it. Every airframe has/had test versions for different weapons sensors etc. I am sure that they tried many stuff on usaf vipers also. 

 

I understand some frustration to a point.  ED has clearly defined that they are creating a circa 2007 ANG bird..  meaning an aircraft in that time period that... and here is the KEY word "operated" at that time...   There is not a shred of evidence (because it didn't happen) of a ANG unit using and "operating" with Harpoon anti ship missiles.   

 

No different that the CFT that several have requested and even argued over as an example.  ED is not modeling them because no 2007 ANG unit EVER had them...  

 

 

[mvsgas]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:58 AM, Tank50us said:

@BIGNEWYfrom the research you guys have done on the Falcon, would such a thing be a software update in the aircraft to install irl? Or would it require more modification to the aircraft in order to accept the missiles?

I wrote this in Feb 2019 about the AIM-7, but the answer applies to this as well

 

On 2/16/2019 at 12:04 AM, mvsgas said:

 

AFAIK, no. Not only programing for the Modular Mission Computer (MMC) and other components, but also wiring to the wing so the aircraft can talk to the missile. It addition, due to its weight, it can only be carried on station 3 and 7. Also, with the AIM-7 on those stations, I am not sure if you would have the physical clearance to carry any other weapons on station 4 and 6 without them hitting the AIM-7 fins if the weapons on station 4 or 6 where ejected or deployed.

 

The problem with this is no matter what ED decides to do, will be a case of dam if you do and dam if you don't. If they add it, someone is bound to "disagree" with it being available. That persons will have people that share the same opinion and they will all do thread after thread on how it should be removed. They same will happen if they don't add the AIM-7.

 

Sadly this will not end here. There is so much misinformation and confusion of what specifically an F-16 can do, there are going to be many thread like this for a while. Before and after it is release.