What exactly does block 50 mean?

[Gunfreak]

Wiki gave me no answers, sure it makes many refrences to Block 50, 40 and 52 ect. But dosn't say what they are.

[ruddy122]

I’ll let a Viper guy explain it but Block50 is the iteration of the F-16

For Example the UAE has Block 60 and the newest version is a Block 70

Also there are two engine manufacturers Pratt and GE that is why you see a 2

For example Block 50 and Block 52


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Each F-16 is different

Just because the outside looks like an F-16C what’s inside them is completely different


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[Majik]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Wiki gave me no answers, sure it makes many refrences to Block 50, 40 and 52 ect. But dosn't say what they are.

 

Best place is here:

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions.html

[mvsgas]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Wiki gave me no answers, sure it makes many refrences to Block 50, 40 and 52 ect. But dosn't say what they are.

Blocks are a manufacturing label indicating a baseline for the aircraft, but it's rarely used in other aircraft besides the F-16. It's been used for years, even WWII aircraft had blocks. On the F-16 it is incorrectly used by people to define capabilities. This is incorrect because F-16 are in a constant state of upgrade/update and there are block 52 less capable than a block 20.

Edited August 3, 2021 by mvsgas

[ruddy122]

I’ve seen CG and CM what does it mean exactly

Confusing for a tanker guy


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[Northstar98]

On 8/3/2021 at 4:47 PM, ruddy122 said:

I’ve seen CG and CM what does it mean exactly

 

The F-16CG denotes Block 40/42 aircraft before the CCIP (Common Configuration Implementation Program)

 

CM refers to F-16Cs that have undergone CCIP so the F-16CG Block 40/42 and F-16CJ Block 50/52 became F-16CM Block 40/42 and F-16CM Block 50/52 respectively after CCIP.

 

In a similar breath the F-16AM/BM are F-16A/Bs that have undergone the MLU (Mid Life Upgrade) program.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Northstar98
CCIP wasn't applied to Block 30/32 AFAIK

[mvsgas]

On 2/13/2019 at 11:31 PM, mvsgas said:

 

I tried to explain this here

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3745350&postcount=164

 

To add, CM it would be found on Technical Orders (T.O.) Specifically affected after CCIP program (i.e. 1F-16CM-34-1-1, 1F-16CM-1, etc.) For other T.O. is would still be CJ (block 50/52) or CG (block 40/42). CM does not specify a block or capabilities and it is still officially F-16C but it becoming common practice to refer to those F-16 after CCIP upgrade as CM.

So when you look at the cover page of a 1F-16CM-34-1-1, it refers to the aircraft as a F-16C/D because that is the official designation.

 

 

For those that are interested, Air Force Instruction (AFI) 11-2F-16V3 is available online in E-publishing.af.mil. It has no publishing restrictions and has a lot of information regarding F-16 operations.

 

For example, it has been brought up before that the HUD in a F-16 is not a primary flight instrument.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by mvsgas

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, mvsgas said:

Blocks are a manufacturing label indicating a baseline for the aircraft, but it's rarely used in other aircraft besides the F-16. It's been used for years, even WWII aircraft had blocks. On the F-16 it is incorrectly used by people to define capabilities. This is incorrect because F-16 are in a constant state of upgrade/update and there are block 52 less capable than a block 20.

 

 

Hm Norwegian F16s are apparently block 1/5 and 15.

[mvsgas]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

 

Hm Norwegian F16s are apparently block 1/5 and 15.

AFAIK, Block 1, 5, 10 and 15

https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/view_airframes_byadvancedsearch/acshort/F-16/fy/0/plant/0/status/0/version/0/program/0/airforce/11044/unit/0/deployment/0/displayteam/0/actype/F-16/startnum/1

[Bunny Clark]

In a general sense each block of an aircraft is a production run. Someone buys a bunch of F-16s, they're all manufactured, and those will have a common block number. In between blocks the manufacturer or purchaser may make small changes to the design to improve capabilities or make manufacturing and maintenance easier. The intent is that the block-to-block changes are not significant enough to warrant giving the aircraft a new variant designation, and are specific enough to be useful to mechanics and maintainers to know when parts or procedures are different from one airframe to another. All military aircraft have blocks, they're just don't usually differentiate capabilities because they're not really supposed to. 

 

That got kinda weird with the F-16. When the LANTIRN night attack variant of the F-16 was first designed, the USAF wanted to designate it the F-16G. Congress disagreed because they didn't want to be seen as funding a new aircraft type for political reasons and made the USAF continue to call it an F-16C. The USAF split the difference and internally call it the F-16CG instead. The same thing happened with the F-16CJ. The Common Configuration Improvement Program (CCIP) was intended to modernize the avionics of both the F-16CG and F-16CJ so that both could use the same software version. Aircraft that have completed this program are now labeled F-16CM. There are still some hardware differences between the F-16CM Block 40 and Block 50, but they're less significant than they used to be. 

[skywalker22]

Awesome answer: https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5091

Block is a designation given to each design series of the F-16. There are blocks 5, 10 and 15 which were all A/B models (A being single seat B is the two seater) these included tails #'s up until roughly 1983. This is where the block 25, 30, and 32 models started and ran until roughly the late 80s. Then came the block 40 and 42's. Beginning in the early 90's the block 50 and 52's came out.

The easiest way to distinguish the earlier block 5, 10, and 15 A/B models in my opinion is to look at the stabs. The earlier models had a sharoly angled corner on the outside rear corner of the stabs. On subsequent blocks this corner is cut off. Now, the biggest difference between each block is it's capabilities. More or less it's avionics package. Each block being much more capable than the previous block.

Of course with every airframe the Air Force fields, each block has been modified and upgraded numerous times to prolong the service life of the F-16. You won't find many F-16 block 15 or below in the active Air Force although I'm pretty sure that some are still used at Edwards AFB and Eglin AFB for test and eval purposes, but most of these aircraft I think are used by guard units.

Most of the block 25s are also relegated to National Guard units. There are a couple of active squadrons fly them here at Luke AFB. Most of the combat aircraft used today are blocks 30 through 50. Another thing, as with the blocks 30/32, 40/42, and 50/52, blocks 30, 40, and 50 are equiped with General Electric engines. Blocks 32, 42, and 52 are equiped with Pratt&Whittney engines.

The purpose of this is two fold 1. It is cheaper with two competing engine manufacturers and you also usually get the best product although most of us will tell you that GE is by far the better engine 2. It is an insurance policy. For instance, if the whole fleet of F-16s was equipped with Pratt engines and Pratt found a safety problem and had to ground the whole fleet to fix the problem... your screwed. By having two different engines ensures this doesn't happen.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by skywalker22
Fixed the engine manfacturers for specifc blocks, thx to @Tholozor

[Tholozor]

Only typo in that post is the engines are reversed on the block designations (should be blocks 30/40/50 have the GE; 32/42/52 have the P&W).

[mvsgas]

3 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

The easiest way to distinguish the earlier block 5, 10, and 15 A/B models in my opinion is to look at the stabs. The earlier models had a sharoly angled corner on the outside rear corner of the stabs. On subsequent blocks this corner is cut off.

 

 

 

 

That is not the best way to tell early blocks apart since many early blocks have the updated horizontal stabs. We talk about here

The early models (block 1 to 20) will have the smaller base for the vertical stab and smaller landing gear. There are many more external differences (RWR and other antennas locations, floods lights etc.) But the landing gear and vertical tail are the most common.

 

Anyway, the corner was not cut, the entire horizontal stabs are bigger (more area)

Edited August 4, 2021 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

2 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Only typo in that post is the engines are reversed on the block designations (should be blocks 30/40/50 have the GE; 32/42/52 have the P&W).

 

3 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

Another thing, as with the blocks 30/32, 40/42, and 50/52, blocks 30, 40, and 50 are equiped with General Electric engines. Blocks 32, 42, and 52 are equiped with Pratt&Whittney engines.

The purpose of this is two fold 1. It is cheaper with two competing engine manufacturers and you also usually get the best product although most of us will tell you that GE is by far the better engine 2. It is an insurance policy. For instance, if the whole fleet of F-16s was equipped with Pratt engines and Pratt found a safety problem and had to ground the whole fleet to fix the problem... your screwed. By having two different engines ensures this doesn't happen.

 

 

 

The F-16 have used 6 different engines with many subversion, not 2. Block 1 to 25 used F100-PW-200. Later block 32 and 42 used F100-PW-220. Early blocks where updated to F100-PW-220 and some users updated their PW-200 to PW-220 standards, those are called F100-PW-220E. Now IIRC, 2 units have converted their block 42 to F100-PW-229 ( Toledo ANG and Oklahoma ANG)

Now, block 30 and 40 used the F110-GE-100, Block 50 uses the F110-GE-129, Block 52 use the F100-PW-229 and the block 60 use the F110-GE-132

 

There where many test aircraft, some with controllable nozzle for thrust vectoring and at least one with the J79

Edited August 4, 2021 by mvsgas

[skywalker22]

44 minutes ago, mvsgas said:

 

The F-16 have used 6 different engines with many subversion, not 2. Block 1 to 25 used F100-PW-200. Later block 32 and 42 used F100-PW-220. Early blocks where updated to F100-PW-220 and some users updated their PW-200 to PW-220 standards, those are called F100-PW-220E. Now IIRC, 2 units have converted their block 42 to F100-PW-229 ( Toledo ANG and Oklahoma ANG)

Now, block 30 and 40 used the F110-GE-100, Block 50 uses the F110-GE-129, Block 52 use the F100-PW-229 and the block 60 use the F110-GE-132

 

There where many test aircraft, some with controllable nozzle for thrust vectoring and at least one with the J79

 

 

check @2min

Who said that Russsians did the Cobra maneuver 1st

Edited August 4, 2021 by skywalker22

[mvsgas]

Here is some prof of how arbitrary  the whole "designation" CG, CJ or CM is. Look at accident reports which have no distributions restrictions

https://www.airforcemag.com/docs/type/accident/

In 2020, you can see two accident, both on updated block 50, yet one is label as CJ and the other as CM

 

It depends more on the person writing or reading than the aircraft and its capabilities.

[Frederf]

I've heard CM vs CG/CJ had more to do with documentation standardization than the airplanes themselves. Servicing black 40 and 50 required having two complete libraries of technical orders which is a lot.

 

With CM one set of TOs apply to all modern F-16s (not sure if that includes ANG earlier than 40) which greatly simplifies and unifies things. I'm not sure if there's any particular thing you have to do to make a CJ into a CM physically.

[mvsgas]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:21 PM, Frederf said:

I've heard CM vs CG/CJ had more to do with documentation standardization than the airplanes themselves. Servicing black 40 and 50 required having two complete libraries of technical orders which is a lot.

 

With CM one set of TOs apply to all modern F-16s (not sure if that includes ANG earlier than 40) which greatly simplifies and unifies things. I'm not sure if there's any particular thing you have to do to make a CJ into a CM physically.

That would be irrelevant, as of 2012 (last year I work on the aircraft) only a few books where affected by the CCIP update. A dozen books hardly matter in libraries containing hundreds of books in this specific context.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by mvsgas