F/A 18C vs MIG 31 - BVR

[Goliathus]

Hey guys,

 

I decided to start a new topic to get some tips from more experienced players.

 

I like to play DCS with Liberation campaign mission generator and I fly exclusively the F/A18C. Its a great jet, but not the fastest one, so it has some clear downsides while fighting other jets BVR.

 

Do you have any tips how to successfully fight the MIG 31 equipped with long rage missiles? I find it impossible to get close enough to fire my AMRAAM, cause I´m always defending ultrafast missiles thrown by the MIG 31 at me and I´m happy to survive. I try to respect the MAR and to find where the MAR is in specific conditions, but it is noway near my launch capability. 

 

To make it more difficult, when flying a mission, there is almost never a single MIG 31 in the air, so I get shot at from more than 1 side, thus only way to survive is to go cold before I even get shot and looooong before I can shot at the MIG 31. In some instances it makes impossible in SP (I don´t play MP at the moment) to get near my target, cause it is heavily guarded by these MIGs and I remember only few cases when I was able to kill MIG 31 - it was because I hid behind two F14 which kept the MIG defensive with their phoenixes, so I managed to get close enough to fire my AMRAAM with kill potential.

 

So is there any possible (not suicidal) tactic to fight a MIG 31 in BVR with a F/A 18 C? I can´t count on AI buddies, they tend to get shot easily.

 

Thx

[Hulkbust44]

The problem is that ED gimped our radar range a little too much. Not to mention that we can't set an off board track as L+S yet. With those tools, being high and fast at launch will be your best bet. But, the MIG-31s always fire at some 60nm. Their missile is fast. Aided by the fact that the MIG-31 is a mach 2.8+ aircraft.

So, as it stands right now, you are going to have to push in to get to an effective range for your 120s. There is no way you will defeat their missiles kinematically, you must notch them. You should have a pretty good PK once you've pushed in and defeated the first salvo. Being very fast aircraft you will see an incredible closure rate which will only give you the higher PK.

It is tough, very tough, but possible. A bit further down the road you should have some more tools at your disposal.

Mobius708

[Goliathus]

Thx for your advice.

 

I´m not sure when is the moment I can consider the enemy missile trashed after I try notching it. I still get the RWR signal as if I was in grave danger, so I´m afraid to reconnect and get closer. Even if the first missile go stupid before its able to go pitbull, there is a good chance there´s second one in the air already.

 

Sometimes I was able to survive if I dived for the deck almost immediately and turn cold. But going cold is the exact opposite of what I should do if I wan´t to get close enough to fire my AMRAMM. So I´m a lost case in this fight and am fighting only to survive, not to score a kill and clear my way to complete my mission.

 

This whole thing bothers me since I play a campaign, where the whole battlefield is around the Cyprus. Its sooooo small, that you simply can´t engage any ground targets if there are usually 2 - 3 MIG 31s in the air all the time. I can´t outrun them, chase them if they are winchester, I just get frustrated. I can´t even count on my F14 (AI operated) buddies, cause they get shot after a while and I simply can´t afford to buy new F14s each turn. Even my PC struggles if there are 50 jets flying all around and plenty ground units are figthing as well (its a massive CPU killer and I get low FPS instantly).

[pcoud]

@Goliathus I fly the F/A18C in Liberation and had the exact same issue and frustration as you. It's just plain impossible (for me) to fight those 31s. The only (not very honourable) way for me to solve the issue was to create a custom "Russia light" faction where I simply removed the mig31s  At least, the fun is back...

[Digitalvole]

I had this too, my solution was to buy the F14 in the hope it’s Phoenix missiles would do the trick haha. But I got distracted by something and have yet to learn the F14. So maybe no solution at all. Anyway, I feel your pain.

[Bunny Clark]

Your best bet is to crank the whole way in. Never drive right at a MiG-31, you're only increasing the range at which it can engage you. As soon as you commit, initiate an offset intercept all the way on your radar gimbal. Crank to reverse this offset every 10-15 seconds, and keep reversing the crank the whole way in until you're in AMRAAM range. Once you've launched, keep pressing, stay offensive, do not abort or disengage. The MiG-31 has advantage in BVR, but a Hornet has all the advantages in close, aggressively pushing in is your best tactic. Banzai, don't Skate. 

 

This gets considerably more difficult if there are multiple groups or the MiG-31 is operating above SAM cover. Pick your fights, try to bait them away from cover to engage you, or coordinate with other friendly groups. Taking on an enemy group outnumbered, especially from multiple angles, is always dangerous, and should be avoided unless you have exceptional SA and have a significant advantage over the bandits. 

[Jenson]

If you can't beat it high and fast, maybe try to beat it low. (I never played the mission and it's just for open talk, I assume I don't know anything better than you) 

 

If you have AWACS, turn off your radar and approach the mig31 from very low altitude from flank, using AWACS datalink as support on your SA, when within about 25 nm, radar on and shoot at target with 2 AIM-120C at 3-5 sec interval, once pitbull, break out. 

 

If you don't have AWACS but at least has wingman, ask wingman to stay high at 35k feet, low speed and approach with S route, playing surveillance role with radar on, while you approach at low altitude, high speed from flank, use datalink as an advantage. 

 

If you are flying alone, then perhaps not to engage mig31 unless have to. 

 

[jacobs]

For liberation missions, I put F-15 and F-14 to deal with Mig-31s. I prefer to use the Hornet as an attack platform with self defense capability. Maybe send the Eagles first while you go down low after then, and try to ambush the -31 would be your best bet. Datalink with AWACS is essential. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by jacobs

[maxTRX]

A little insight from a former RIO posted today... yea, I know it's Tomcatz but some general numbers would also apply here. 

edit: circa '80, '90s

https://youtu.be/38FGpJ_6Js4

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Gripes323

[Oceandar]

I'm not sure if this is an exploit but in DCS Hornet right now since ED in their infinite wisdom decided that APG-73 can detect and shoot missiles, you can beat it simply with just shooting down the R-33 and smile at the AI lol.

[Exorcet]

If you're on a strike mission, taking out enemy fighters isn't your job. The most sensible thing to do is have dedicated fighters deal with the MiG's while you handle ground targets. If the MiG's break through your escort you can try to by yourself some time launching AMRAAM's at absolute max range. Hopefully they will go active and force the MiG's to go on the defensive even if they have next to 0 chance of actually impacting.

 

If you are a fighter and your task is to take on the MiG's, the F-18 can be configured for better BVR combat at the cost of limited stores. 2 fuselage AIM-120 and 2 wingtip AIM-9 will let you accelerate enough to climb and boost your missile range, as well as aid in evasion of enemy missiles. Take a full flight of Hornets if you can to maximize the number of missiles carried. Even in this case, going head to head is risky. It would be ideal if another flight engaged the MiG's from another direction. Whoever the MiG turns to face, extends while the other flight pushes and launches missiles.

 

One last thing you might try is to use the MiG's speed against them. The AI will usually laser focus on one target and chase it down with full speed. If they're coming for you, try turning toward friendly airspace as soon as you're targeted and leading them away from their CAP zones. Do this while managing your fuel. The idea here would be to either drag them to be shot down by friendly air defense, get them to expend missiles on tail shots, or get them to waste their fuel chasing you and forcing them to RTB.

[Dan922]

This is why I prefer Hornet!
 

 

[Goliathus]

Hi guys,

 

thank you all for your suggestions, it clearly declares that DCS has great community.

 

I played DCS recently and I was able to push MIG 31 using your advice. To be clear, I picked up my fights, cause I was on a strike mission equiped with 4 mavs, so I tried to avoid the MIGs until it was necessary to defend myself. I tried to be as fast as possible before I was shot at and not to fly direct at enemy. Then I tried cranking and after one or two cranks I shot my AMRAAM at the MIG despite the fact it problably went stupid immediately and I flew to the deck. I got lucky, cause it seemed like if the MIG lost me for few seconds (I´m not sure if theAI is programmed in DCS in a way that makes it possible for the AI to get confused and loose its target) and I was able to fire another AMRAAM within 15 nm from the deck to the "chemtrailing" MIG.   

 

I was happy to survive and I scored a kill as well ... and then I screw my AG mission :-) But it was soooo much fun.

[Stearmandriver]

Nicely done! I've found that when it's time to run, getting low-level causes the AI bandits to lose you and turn cold quickly. Many times, I've silenced my radar (they DEFINITELY respond to being lit up with radar), and turned back in visually and driven in close enough to un-silence and immediately lock (with HMD long range HACQ) and shoot.  Can't remember which aircraft types... but yeah, extending and diving to low level can cause them to give up quickly!