The sticky nose wheel

[Rongor]

Hello there,

 

I am currently struggling to do beautiful takeoffs in the hog. Manuals and tutorials always tell to pull the stick gently beyond 120 KIAS, until a 10-20 (was it 20? not at home right now) degrees nose up pitch is achieved and then let the increasing speed lift the bird up while maintaining that pitch angle.

 

Problem is, it doesn't work.

Since having an aviation background myself, I know takeoff speeds are not set in stone and will differ depending takeoff mass and environmental conditions, mainly wind vectors, also temperature, air density, pressure and humidity. Yet at some speed in the range beyond 120 KIAS, the gentle pitch up should be achievable.

 

So I am rumbling down the runway, with speeds way into the 140s and sometimes 150s, pulling gently on the stick, but the nose wheel won't get up.

Well it eventually does, but it's a violent moment, regardless how gently I pull.

 

Flaps are at half. NWS is off beyond the 70 mark by the book. Full throttle. Of course I pressed T/O trim. As we all know, max TOM is around 46k lbs but this seems to be the structural/maximum limit only and doesn't take environmental conditions into account.

 

Do I just have to repeat this 100 times more and eventually I will get used to the right amount of stick?

Or do you guys experience similar takeoffs?

 

I am enjoying the DCS A-10 on and off since 10 years or so, only returned very recently to continue having fun with flying (and studying) it. I didn't have this problem back then.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Rongor
I like editing stuff

[silverdevil]

@Rongor - honestly i do not have any issues with takeoff or landing in A10. even at 105% weight. i usually wait until 140 and start pulling. the nose gets some loft and then it just floats upwards. i suspect a controller issue. could be as simple as deadzone or curves. or maybe duplicate controls. find your inputs folder and rename it or make a backup. then retry. if it works then there is an issue in the inputs somewhere.

Edited October 11, 2021 by silverdevil

[Rongor]

@silverdevilWe can rule out controls issues as I always delete all bindings for all input columns as a whole and then start from zero assigning them intentionally.

Also the pitch/roll inputs are doing totally normal up in the air. It's only the takeoff situation which causes trouble here.

 

I will commence pulling the stick later now, as you do, not earlier than 140 kts. Maybe this alone does the trick.

 

Possibly the 120 kts from the tutorials seem to generate wrong expectations here, generating a mishandling of controls by the pilot. The too-early pull could essentially generate some sort of stall, from which it might be more difficult to return into a lifting airflow than if pulled at a time when a higher speed already has the wings inside a laminar airflow, out of which to then direct sufficient lift upwards to raise the nose.

 

 

@Desert FoxThanks for the chart, this should be in the manual!

Edited October 11, 2021 by Rongor

[Zodiacc]

BTW make sure you are holding 10 degree pitch up on ADI not your velocity vector on HUD

Edited October 12, 2021 by Zodiacc

[jaylw314]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:40 AM, Desert Fox said:

 

 

 

NOOO!  Never use the ADI during takeoff!    Well, at least not in visual conditions.  You should always use visual cues outside the cockpit in visual conditions.  Two easy options:

• Look at the top edge of the HUD glass, with my seating position it sits about 3 degrees below the horizon on the ground.  On rotation, to pitch up 12 degrees I lift the nose until the edge of the glass sits at about 5 degrees above the horizon.
• Look through the bottom of the HUD or at the nose.  Mine sits about 17 degrees down, so to pitch up 12 degrees, pitch up until the nose touches about 5 degrees below the horizon

Obviously, the numbers above only apply to my seating position, but keeping your head up during the takeoff roll is important and more precise than the ADI.

Also note the AOA indicator to the left of the HUD will be green when you're at the proper takeoff AOA--not precise, but quick and easy.

[jaylw314]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:41 AM, Rongor said:

@silverdevilWe can rule out controls issues as I always delete all bindings for all input columns as a whole and then start from zero assigning them intentionally.

Also the pitch/roll inputs are doing totally normal up in the air. It's only the takeoff situation which causes trouble here.

 

I will commence pulling the stick later now, as you do, not earlier than 140 kts. Maybe this alone does the trick.

 

Possibly the 120 kts from the tutorials seem to generate wrong expectations here, generating a mishandling of controls by the pilot. The too-early pull could essentially generate some sort of stall, from which it might be more difficult to return into a lifting airflow than if pulled at a time when a higher speed already has the wings inside a laminar airflow, out of which to then direct sufficient lift upwards to raise the nose.

 

 

@Desert FoxThanks for the chart, this should be in the manual!

 

 

The hawg does take a fair amount of elevator travel to pull the nose up.  I'm not sure why, but setting takeoff trim doesn't actually provide any nose up, it just centers the elevator trim tab.  This may be why the hawg doesn't gently lift off the runway at rotation speed, you've got to crank the nose up fairly assertively.  Think of that massive gun in the nose...

[silverdevil]

On 10/12/2021 at 4:48 PM, jaylw314 said:

NOOO! 

i dont know why but this made me spit beer.

[ASAP]

Like you said, it depends on temperature and weight. Use the chart that desert fox posted above, but start your rotation at single engine rate of climb speed (SERC). For most temperature and weights it will be somewhere around 140ish as a good wag if you don't feel  like looking it up and computing it. Real world A-10C pilots use SERC because if you rotate at that speed and your engine compressor stalls/you take a bird/catches on fire/just quits, you'll already be at your best climb speed and gives you the best chance of getting away from the ground.

Also, I'd definitly reference your ADI on take off and climb out at 10 degrees until you accelerate to 200Kts then adjust pitch to maintain. Obviously don't stare at the thing, but your control instruments should always be a part of your cross check. Outside visual references are great to get you in the ball park, but then glance inside and refine before looking back outside.