F-15E WIP Update Discussion

[Fromthedeep]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Really? Most of ED's own pre-orders last for a year.

There has never been a pre order in DCS that has lasted for longer than 6 months.

[bfr]

23 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

There has never been a pre order in DCS that has lasted for longer than 6 months.

Mid-August it is then 

[FZG_Immel]

The main problem isnt the delay. 

 

the main problem is that you make your paying customers wait while half youtube fools around with it. that does not create hype. just frustration.

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, FZG_Immel said:

make your paying customers wait while half youtube fools around with it.

 

surely you mean half a dozen? ... or are you also counting Razbam and Baltic Dragon YT channels?

[MAXsenna]

There has never been a pre order in DCS that has lasted for longer than 6 months.

Apologies. I stand corrected. I must have been thinking about something else.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Beirut]

5 hours ago, al531246 said:

>blindly pre-orders without knowing the release date
>gets mad when because release date isn't soon enough

lmao it's entirely your own problem! If you were myopic enough to place a pre-order without knowing a release date, don't complain when a release date is announced. 

 

I don't agree that it's myopic. 

 

There is, at least there should be, a reasonable expectation of a reasonable amount of communication from the seller in exchange for the buyer parting with the cash up front. The buyer is showing confidence in the seller, as well as enjoying some satisfaction in supporting the developers, felling invested, and the whole sense of expectation thing. Personally, I enjoy a good pre-order. 

 

Patience on the part of the buyer in a pre-order scenario can be achieved by a seller with good communication skills. That has not been the case here. So a little saltiness in the voice of some of the buyers is to be expected. And if the seller can't manage good communication skills and/or can't handle a little saltiness in exchange for the up-front cash and their own PR failings, then they should not be asking for money up front. But they did, with great hype, so complaints are justified.

[Pipe]

I’m guessing all you people asking for a date of release, have not been around DCS very long. 
ED and the other devs learned the hard way years ago what happens when one is given.
It is not going to happen ever, they have stated as much!

What ED and the others need to do is stop doing preorders, you guy are obviously ill equipped for this.

This module has been on the table for over a decade, so view immanent in context..

 

 

[StrikeWolf]

Personally I don’t mind the waiting for it or fact it’s been few a months.  Yeah gives its more time to get finished. Truthfully what does hurt is the content creators getting access way before(Yeah I know for hype and PR bull<profanity> I get it and their lucky to be using it) but it’s that they’ll get to still use and pump out content until then.  I wouldn’t mind if said access got revoked or but a stop ban on posting content for it. Just feels like salt on a wound every video I do see.  

[Beirut]

16 minutes ago, Pipe said:

I’m guessing all you people asking for a date of release, have not been around DCS very long. 
ED and the other devs learned the hard way years ago what happens when one is given.
It is not going to happen ever, they have stated as much!

What ED and the others need to do is stop doing preorders, you guy are obviously ill equipped for this.

This module has been on the table for over a decade, so view immanent in context..

 

Considering your level of community involvement is very low, and has been for many years, I'm not sure you are fit to judge others who are more invested in the sim and the community.

 

Perhaps you are ill equipped to understand what is actually going on.

[freehand]

12 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Considering your level of community involvement is very low, and has been for many years, I'm not sure you are fit to judge others who are more invested in the sim and the community.

 

Perhaps you are ill equipped to understand what is actually going on.

And how did you work that out what he has invested in dcs ? 

[Pipe]

8 minutes ago, freehand said:

And how did you work that out what he has invested in dcs ? 

Try not to feed the troll

Edited May 25, 2023 by Pipe

[LorenLuke]

3 hours ago, Pipe said:

I’m guessing all you people asking for a date of release, have not been around DCS very long. 
ED and the other devs learned the hard way years ago what happens when one is given.
It is not going to happen ever, they have stated as much!

What ED and the others need to do is stop doing preorders, you guy are obviously ill equipped for this.

This module has been on the table for over a decade, so view immanent in context..

 

 

Just because I've not been around StarCitizen very long doesn't mean that their preorder practices aren't horrific.

You can 'know what you're getting into' and still demand better, especially if you were to say that this sort of stuff would be unacceptable basically anywhere but here. 

[TJTAS]

6 hours ago, FZG_Immel said:

The main problem isnt the delay. 

 

the main problem is that you make your paying customers wait while half youtube fools around with it. that does not create hype. just frustration.

 

4 hours ago, StrikeWolf said:

Just feels like salt on a wound every video I do see.  

This is exactly the point.

 

[Ich Dien]

5 hours ago, StrikeWolf said:

Personally I don’t mind the waiting for it or fact it’s been few a months.  Yeah gives its more time to get finished. Truthfully what does hurt is the content creators getting access way before(Yeah I know for hype and PR bull<profanity> I get it and their lucky to be using it) but it’s that they’ll get to still use and pump out content until then.  I wouldn’t mind if said access got revoked or but a stop ban on posting content for it. Just feels like salt on a wound every video I do see.  

If I agree with one thing here, it's that there should've have been a content embargo until much closer to the actual date. 

The videos don't offend me at all, but the creators themselves are struggling a bit because RB are firing out codes all over the shop, with BDs manual, and they're scrambling around to produce content with minimal prep time in order not to miss the hype train. 

I'm not saying I feel sorry for them either; it's their job/hobby to market the thing and more skilled creators will shine here. But a more significant embargo would've been a win for everyone here. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Ich Dien

[AhSoul]

53 minutes ago, Ich Dien said:

If I agree with one thing here, it's that there should've have been a content embargo until much closer to the actual date. 

I think they planned to release close to all these videos and THEN pushed it for some reason after the videos had started coming out ....

[Ich Dien]

Just now, AhSoul said:

I think they planned to release close to all these videos and THEN pushed it for some reason after the videos had started coming out ....

Definitely, im not one of those saying it happened for no reason, and I'm actually happy that it's being delayed if it means the released product is better. 

However a later content embargo would've still been better for creators and viewers alike in my opinion. 

[AhSoul]

But that's my point - they might have had that late embargo you speak of, thinking it would release say 2 or 3 weeks after those videos. Pushing the date AFTER the videos start to come out screws that up as it's too late - the videos are in the wild and you can't stop it then.

[Ich Dien]

Point well made. 

[Scott-S6]

7 hours ago, StrikeWolf said:

Just feels like salt on a wound every video I do see.  

That you feel there is a wound at all is the problem. A little introspection might be called for, waiting for release shouldn't be wounding...

BTW, to extend your analogy, a salt rub is quite invigorating (when you don't have a wound).

Edited May 25, 2023 by Scott-S6

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

That's why some call them "access media" which the term I hate to use. They have access to everything early -- cars, movies, TV shows, etc. well before you and I have access to.

Say, these YouTubers watched the complete Ghostbuster: Afterlife and Top Gun Maverick almost a year before the public. They, alongside with the press, have special screenings, so that they can give out impressions and help sales. I don't hear many complaints about their access. They may be criticised for being biased to maintain their access, though. I hear nobody yelling the movie markers and car makers talked to the consumers, and maintained good communication, even though they accept advanced bookings and postpone the products, occasionally. Again, they all accept bookings.

Just observation, just comparison and again no judgement. Hope to assist/fuel the discussion.

Edited May 25, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Beirut]

8 hours ago, freehand said:

And how did you work that out what he has invested in dcs ? 

 

Investment is not merely material. My point is that someone who only posts 15 or 20 times a year, while certainly entitled to his opinion, is perhaps not the best judge of what is happening on the forums. Especially when passing judgement on a wide swath of forum members, which he did.

 

He wrote: "What ED and the others need to do is stop doing preorders, you guy are obviously ill equipped for this."

 

If someone chirps in with a statement like that, it's fair to say a reply will be at hand and the person shouldn't get his skivvies in a twist when it arrives. 

[Scott-S6]

22 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Investment is not merely material. My point is that someone who only posts 15 or 20 times a year, while certainly entitled to his opinion, is perhaps not the best judge of what is happening on the forums. Especially when passing judgement on a wide swath of forum members, which he did.

 

He wrote: "What ED and the others need to do is stop doing preorders, you guy are obviously ill equipped for this."

 

If someone chirps in with a statement like that, it's fair to say a reply will be at hand and the person shouldn't get his skivvies in a twist when it arrives. 

Or perhaps he reads just as much as those of you averaging 2-3 posts a day but posts less, which would mean that he's perfectly well placed to judge the negative behaviour of a vocal minority? He's absolutely correct and trying to deflect that by pointing out his post count is a very poor counter argument.

It would be equally valid (i.e. not at all) to say that you aren't qualified to comment on the community since you've only been here since 2019 or because you have provided zero community answers.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Scott-S6

[Scott-S6]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

That's why some call them "access media" which the term I hate to use. They have access to everything early -- cars, movies, TV shows, etc. well before you and I have access to.

Say, these YouTubers watched the complete Ghostbuster: Afterlife and Top Gun Maverick almost a year before the public. They, alongside with the press, have special screenings, so that they can give out impressions and help sales. I don't hear many complaints about their access. They may be criticised for being biased to maintain their access, though. I hear nobody yelling the movie markers and car makers talked to the consumers, and maintained good communication, even though they accept advanced bookings and postpone the products, occasionally. Again, they all accept bookings.

Just observation, just comparison and again no judgement. Hope to assist/fuel the discussion.

 

That early access is problematic, for sure, especially in the video game review sphere.

Release day is huge for people looking for reviews in order to decide whether to purchase. To have reviews out on release day (or even release week) absolutely requires early access. This means that reviewers are unable to see the true release state of the game (because they don't have the day one patch) and they have to be very careful with criticism because loss of early access will substantially damage them.

Not the easiest thing to fix though. The only real solution would be for the review community to decide en-mass that their integrity isn't for sale and they'll self impose an embargo for two weeks post release. The reduced hype at that point would absolutely reduce their views though... I don't see it happening. If publishers just stopped giving early access then we get a race for fast reviews with lots of half-baked nonsense being put out. Personally, I just avoid reviews generally and especially anywhere close to release.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Scott-S6

[Phantom88]

 

[Beirut]

20 minutes ago, Scott-S6 said:

Or perhaps he reads just as much as those of you averaging 2-3 posts a day but posts less, which would mean that he's perfectly well placed to judge the negative behaviour of a vocal minority? He's absolutely correct and trying to deflect that by pointing out his post count is a very poor counter argument.

It would be equally valid (i.e. not at all) to say that you aren't qualified to comment on the community since you've only been here since 2019 or because you have provided zero community answers.

 

 

Fair enough. You are certainly as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. 

 

And I think the "negative behaviour" as you call it, is a direct result of poor communication on the part of the sellers. Sometimes people complain for no reason, and sometimes for a reason.  There is a reason this time.

 

As for not providing any community answers, you're damn right I haven't. I'm the guy who needs and asks for help and then says thank you. Think of all the satisfaction I bring to others by letting them have those "solved a problem" thing in their forum bio. It's a tough job, but I'm up for it.