Mixed reality simulation

[Corvet_01]

I did a thorough search on this and didn't see what I was looking for.

Some questions, please:

Does mixed reality only work with Steam versions and Windows Mixed Reality?

What do you need?  A cockpit with switches only talking to DCS via DCS-BIOS?

What is needed to make it work?  Not looking for a computer spec.  Hardware other than the computer, please.

Thanks.

Kev

[speed-of-heat]

No, it will work with Meta as well, as Steam VR, honestly nearly all commercial headsets

a HMD and HOTAS, i would also recommend a track ball, i would not recommend DCS-BIOS as it sucks CPU cycles

I dont understand your third question...

 

[Corvet_01]

6 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

No, it will work with Meta as well, as Steam VR, honestly nearly all commercial headsets

a HMD and HOTAS, i would also recommend a track ball, i would not recommend DCS-BIOS as it sucks CPU cycles

I dont understand your third question...

 

The third question regarded actual switches/inputs to the sim, what's needed?

What is the trackball used for?

Thanks.

Kev

[speed-of-heat]

Other than the HOTAS , you don't need other buttons, i would recommend Voice Attack, and Vaicom to simplify voice comms.

I do have a fair few buttons, but because you cant see them you have to train yourself to use them blind, some people cant do that:

 

but this is what i use.

I use the track ball mouse to manipulate other switches in the cockpit, i also bind mouse buttons to a couple of my hotas switches, and the use a feature of voice attack to centre the mouse on the screen as the button is pressed.

 

hth

 

[Corvet_01]

This does help.  Thank you.

Do your MFD's have a display or no reason to?

I had considered the hardware use of MFD's and either the UFC or MCP depending on the aircraft chosen.

Have you considered gloves?

Thanks for the info.

Kev

[speed-of-heat]

No displays just button boxes. There is no reason to put screens in the, in vr you can’t see them… and the exports would kill your performance.

no they don’t seem to work particularly well and are hideously expensive…

[Taz1004]

This guy's design is becoming popular and there are more and more variation of it.  Some with haptic feedback and wireless.

I'm thinking for DCS, it doesn't even need all 5 fingers.  Just index finger which could make it a lot simpler and lighter.  I'd make one if I had a 3D printer.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Taz1004

[Corvet_01]

Wow.  I AM IRON MAN!

[ShaunX]

9 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

This guy's design is becoming popular and there are more and more variation of it.  Some with haptic feedback and wireless.

I'm thinking for DCS, it doesn't even need all 5 fingers.  Just index finger which could make it a lot simpler and lighter.  I'd make one if I had a 3D printer.

 

 

That kid's a genius!

Kinda reminds me of myself at that age...oh no wait, I was mostly just trying to find ways to get drunk and pick up girls

[speed-of-heat]

10 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

This guy's design is becoming popular and there are more and more variation of it.  Some with haptic feedback and wireless.

I'm thinking for DCS, it doesn't even need all 5 fingers.  Just index finger which could make it a lot simpler and lighter.  I'd make one if I had a 3D printer.

 

The design is ingenious ... I think it still needs to be smaller not to interfere with HOTAS buttons... don't get me wrong this is awesome (and the kid is mega smart) i just dont think it would work for me ... i think pointctrl is a more useful tool for pc pilots... if you can get one (i have been waiting over a year).

part of the reason is that if you have a HOTAS you want the hands to be discretionary, so that when you move your hands to your hotas, you are not flipping switches in the VR cockpit...

but regardless .. you don't *NEED* VR gloves...

Edited December 12, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[speed-of-heat]

any more than i need half my button boxes

[Taz1004]

51 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

The design is ingenious ... I think it still needs to be smaller not to interfere with HOTAS buttons... don't get me wrong this is awesome (and the kid is mega smart) i just dont think it would work for me ... i think pointctrl is a more useful tool for pc pilots... if you can get one (i have been waiting over a year).

part of the reason is that if you have a HOTAS you want the hands to be discretionary, so that when you move your hands to your hotas, you are not flipping switches in the VR cockpit...

but regardless .. you don't *NEED* VR gloves...

 

I don't know why you would flip switches by accident.  It wouldn't happen any more than you would in real plane.  And as the kid showed in the video, you can have gesture to control clicks.  Point with your index finger and moving thumb would activate click.  There are other more streamlined designs out there too but all of them are still early stage.  I'd expect much more refined designs in about a year.

I actually like using VR controller and the VR hand in DCS.  Only problem is that I can't grab HOTAS with controllers in hand.  And it gives me no feedback when I make contact.  VR glove would solve both.

This is another design based on the Lucas design.  Again, I'd do it only on index and maybe thumb only for DCS.  But need to buy a 3D printer first...

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Taz1004

[speed-of-heat]

because my throttle isnt in the same place as the real world throttle exactly ... 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

22 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Other than the HOTAS , you don't need other buttons, i would recommend Voice Attack, and Vaicom to simplify voice comms.

I do have a fair few buttons, but because you cant see them you have to train yourself to use them blind, some people cant do that:

 

but this is what i use.

I use the track ball mouse to manipulate other switches in the cockpit, i also bind mouse buttons to a couple of my hotas switches, and the use a feature of voice attack to centre the mouse on the screen as the button is pressed.

 

hth

 

Tomorrow I will be receiving a similar 48 keys programable keyboard. How do you attach that device to your setup?

[oleuzop]

Hi everyone,

After seing this thread I've done a little bit of research and I've just found this and I was wondering if we'll ever have something like this true mixed reality in the near future in DCS... It would be awesome to use it together with homemade built cockpits:

https://vimeo.com/379047035

I mean what can be seen from 1:04 more or less.

(Original post => https://varjo.com/testimonial/cost-effective-pilot-training-varjo-xr-1-mixed-reality-simulator-by-bohemia-interactive-simulations/ )

It would actually be a good solution for finding the mouse whenever I have the VR goggles on!

BTW: It's using Varjo VR headset... which is not cheap at all

After a little bit of research I've found this:

https://www.stereolabs.com/zed-mini/

Which has all the sources (in C++) to integrate it with OpenGL buffer and so on. (https://github.com/stereolabs/zed-opengl/blob/master/src/main.cpp)

I was wondering if it would be possible to do some workaround to make DCS work as the video by Varjo & Bohemia Interactive and Varjo.

I will take some time the following days to know how complex it would be and give it a try.

Anyways... just wanted to know your toughts and share it with you.

Cheers!

Edited December 12, 2021 by oleuzop

[Taz1004]

30 minutes ago, oleuzop said:

Hi everyone,

After seing this thread I've done a little bit of research and I've just found this and I was wondering if we'll ever have something like this true mixed reality in the near future in DCS... It would be awesome to use it together with homemade built cockpits:

https://vimeo.com/379047035

I mean what can be seen from 1:04 more or less.

(Original post => https://varjo.com/testimonial/cost-effective-pilot-training-varjo-xr-1-mixed-reality-simulator-by-bohemia-interactive-simulations/ )

It would actually be a good solution for finding the mouse whenever I have the VR goggles on!

BTW: It's using Varjo VR headset... which is not cheap at all

After a little bit of research I've found this:

https://www.stereolabs.com/zed-mini/

Which has all the sources (in C++) to integrate it with OpenGL buffer and so on. (https://github.com/stereolabs/zed-opengl/blob/master/src/main.cpp)

I was wondering if it would be possible to do some workaround to make DCS work as the video by Varjo & Bohemia Interactive and Varjo.

I will take some time the following days to know how complex it would be and give it a try.

Anyways... just wanted to know your toughts and share it with you.

Cheers!

As cool as AR looks, it locks you into an airframe.  I probably would never go that route.

[Corvet_01]

44 minutes ago, oleuzop said:

Hi everyone,

After seing this thread I've done a little bit of research and I've just found this and I was wondering if we'll ever have something like this true mixed reality in the near future in DCS... It would be awesome to use it together with homemade built cockpits:

https://vimeo.com/379047035

I mean what can be seen from 1:04 more or less.

(Original post => https://varjo.com/testimonial/cost-effective-pilot-training-varjo-xr-1-mixed-reality-simulator-by-bohemia-interactive-simulations/ )

It would actually be a good solution for finding the mouse whenever I have the VR goggles on!

BTW: It's using Varjo VR headset... which is not cheap at all

After a little bit of research I've found this:

https://www.stereolabs.com/zed-mini/

Which has all the sources (in C++) to integrate it with OpenGL buffer and so on. (https://github.com/stereolabs/zed-opengl/blob/master/src/main.cpp)

I was wondering if it would be possible to do some workaround to make DCS work as the video by Varjo & Bohemia Interactive and Varjo.

I will take some time the following days to know how complex it would be and give it a try.

Anyways... just wanted to know your toughts and share it with you.

Cheers!

 

This is the mixed reality that I was referring to.

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

Tomorrow I will be receiving a similar 48 keys programable keyboard. How do you attach that device to your setup?

via the USB cable... 

14 minutes ago, Taz1004 said:

As cool as AR looks, it locks you into an airframe.  I probably would never go that route.

This pretty much , also exporting displays in VR is a fools errand (at least at the moment) as you burn CPU and GPU cycles doing it.

[oleuzop]

1 hour ago, Corvet_01 said:

This is the mixed reality that I was referring to.

I would sell one kidney to have that in DCS...

I'll take some time in the following days to see if it would be possible to integrate this "zed-mini" webcams together with my headset (Quest2) and, if so, I'll think about buying them.

Now that Apache is coming to DCS... well, watching that video..., buff, too many emotions together! haha!

 

[Corvet_01]

I think I might head towards a Varjo Aero and PointCTRL.

After owning a 1:1 B737 sim, I really don't want to mess with hardware any longer.  Getting too old...

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

9 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

via the USB cable... 

This pretty much , also exporting displays in VR is a fools errand (at least at the moment) as you burn CPU and GPU cycles doing it.

I mean attaching to your stick mount or frame or table

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I mean attaching to your stick mount or frame or table

I use a a tablet Mount for a camera tripod, https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B076VDSXW6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and  magic arm,

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QWSKVFN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then I attach those to one of the pre drilled holes in  the frame, to attach them.

it’s a bit of a fiddle, but once you have them locked in place, it’s very sturdy, I use the same attachments for most of my button boxes, or other camera type holders. 

the metal ones are much more rigid than the plastic, which offers too much flex.

[oleuzop]

On 12/12/2021 at 8:52 PM, Corvet_01 said:

This is the mixed reality that I was referring to.

Just in case you are interested:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CYGlRnfAy_n/

https://www.instagram.com/stories/enginhk/2740072532755554362/

This guy is using varjo in DCS in mixed reality. Looking forward for his results!

Kind regards!

[DeltaMike]

VR controllers are clunky and break immersion. Typically we rely on a pointing device to interact with the cockpit and everything else is by feel.

It's possible to put button boxes in about the right spots and work on your muscle memory. I've always thought a landing gear lever would have utility, otherwise I don't prefer to search around for stuff. That's just me tho.

Voice attack is immersive. When you fly in real life it's common to say your checklists out loud. "gear down, flaps full" etc. And of course anything involving a radio call is very immersive. "Wheels up." "Fence in." "Ready pre-contact" etc.

The point ctrl device is really interesting too. If you go to the guys website, you'll see he has plain plywood panels laid out like an instrument panel. When he's working switches and stuff he touches the panels. Looks bizarre from the outside but it's brilliant when you think about it. Haptics on the cheap with no muscle memory required, no link to the default world. Which is the grail we seek, I think.  

Edited December 31, 2021 by DeltaMike