Why P-47 is so much harder to control than P-51?

[brucewhf]

P-47's control is very sensitive, small movement of the joystick can result in a massive pitch. I have to change the curve setting to 30% smoother to counteract this sensitivity, while 15% curve is enough for P-51.

 

I know ED used a real P-51 to make mustang as real as possible, but P-47 is also modeled by an official document which should be real too. So why P-47 is much harder to control than P-51?

Edited January 30, 2022 by brucewhf

[grafspee]

Because it is P-47 and not P-51.

It is only your impression, for me P-47 isn't much harder to control, ofc it is much heavier plane so act differently then P-51.

At most a bit harder, it is obvious that for every plane you would need different settings to be able to fly smooth.

Edited January 30, 2022 by grafspee

[Gunfreak]

I use a extended stick and don't use curves on any planes, and don't feel much different for on the stick.

But the P47 is more difficult to control, when you're flying on the limit, you have to use a lot of rudder to keep it under kontroll. 

[andyw248]

I too feel that the P-47 is super sensitive on the pitch axis, to the extent that is feels "jumpy". I use a stick extension. I don't recall being mentioned in the original sources on the P-47, such as the training films. Had it been so sensitive I think they would have mentioned this.

I don't think the P-47 is too sensitive around the roll and yaw axes though.

[Nealius]

I use a 20cm stick with no curves, and also agree that the Jug is very sensitive in pitch, particularly when compared to the Mustang or Anton. 

[grafspee]

9 hours ago, andyw248 said:

I too feel that the P-47 is super sensitive on the pitch axis, to the extent that is feels "jumpy". I use a stick extension. I don't recall being mentioned in the original sources on the P-47, such as the training films. Had it been so sensitive I think they would have mentioned this.

I don't think the P-47 is too sensitive around the roll and yaw axes though.

In spitfire manuals they dont mention pitch sesitivity. Roll was an issue until boosted ailerons were introduced like in p38.

Training films will not provide such data, But NACA P-47 D-30 evaluation report does.

Also this report says that at speeds above 250mph stick force for G is extremely low.

Edited February 1, 2022 by grafspee

[LeCuvier]

After some practice I can fly the jug quite precisely, without a stick extension but with 15% curvatures on pitch and roll. You have to keep in mind that it has a huge mass. Because you don't see it responding as fast as a Spit, Mustang or Kurfürst, you tend to over-control and then of course it will over-respond. Knowing this, I have learned to use the controls gently.
I'm not there at all with the Mosquito which seems even worse, but I may never get to master this one because I hate its messy cockpit (not ED's fault, just reality).

[peachmonkey]

P47 is a pleasure to fly with vkb gun fighter pro, no curvature needed for me..

now, for Mosquito i had to put a 20% curve.  If you think P47 is twitchy in the pitch axis give Mosquito a try... 

[_Hoss]

P-47 in DCS is a dream to fly, I actually like it better than the P-51, Mosquito, and the Spitfire. With the digital trim it's easy to go hands off as long as you keep your hands off the throttle. I have one of GVL's trim boxes R/P/Y, with pots that have three full rotations in it, so there is lots of travel. The Mustang and Spit trim wheels turn 1:1 with my controller. The Jug and Mossie do not, I get only 50% of rotation in the plane, so I'm stuck with digital vice analog trim. I'd like to see the P-38 and see if it flies straight with counter rotating props.

Hoss

[River]

10 hours ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

P-47 in DCS is a dream to fly, I actually like it better than the P-51, Mosquito, and the Spitfire. With the digital trim it's easy to go hands off as long as you keep your hands off the throttle. I have one of GVL's trim boxes R/P/Y, with pots that have three full rotations in it, so there is lots of travel. The Mustang and Spit trim wheels turn 1:1 with my controller. The Jug and Mossie do not, I get only 50% of rotation in the plane, so I'm stuck with digital vice analog trim. I'd like to see the P-38 and see if it flies straight with counter rotating props.

Hoss

After the last patch the P 47 trim only gives you 50 percent range when the trim is bound to an axis. 

It's a bug atm, just FYI

[brucewhf]

11 hours ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

GVL's trim boxes

What are the GVL's trim boxes? I googled it but found nothing. I always want a trimming equipment but I never find it

[brucewhf]

12 hours ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

P-47 in DCS is a dream to fly, I actually like it better than the P-51, Mosquito, and the Spitfire. With the digital trim it's easy to go hands off as long as you keep your hands off the throttle. I have one of GVL's trim boxes R/P/Y, with pots that have three full rotations in it, so there is lots of travel. The Mustang and Spit trim wheels turn 1:1 with my controller. The Jug and Mossie do not, I get only 50% of rotation in the plane, so I'm stuck with digital vice analog trim. I'd like to see the P-38 and see if it flies straight with counter rotating props.

Hoss

P-47 has  much better image quality than P-51. P-51's cockpit looks blurry and aged

Edited February 2, 2022 by brucewhf

[_Hoss]

9 hours ago, River said:

After the last patch the P 47 trim only gives you 50 percent range when the trim is bound to an axis. 

It's a bug atm, just FYI

I figured that, since the Pony/Spit work just fine.  

7 hours ago, brucewhf said:

P-47 has  much better image quality than P-51. P-51's cockpit looks blurry and aged

 

You can use one of the mods for the cockpit...... I have always loved the Jug more than any other warbird, but I'll always take a P-38 anytime I can find one. 

[mmtaraval]

15 hours ago, brucewhf said:

What are the GVL's trim boxes? I googled it but found nothing. I always want a trimming equipment but I never find it

I found this thread: 

 

I've also been looking for something similar. Authentikit offers plans and resources to build your own - https://authentikit.org/ might be a good alternative.

Edited February 3, 2022 by mmtaraval

[_Hoss]

I'm sorry it took so long to get back on this thread, but I've been busy with family................. 

Here are some pics of my throttle set up with the BlackHog and GVL R/P/Y trim box.

Youtube video...  

And hopefully this invite to the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Discord channel works. 

https://discord.gg/szqaJE7

He has a page on this discord, with lots of his controllers.  There are many iterations of this trim box.  I'd PM him via this discord and ask him about his gear.  I would not wait too long, he's in the Ukraine, and shipping out of the country might become a problem if said entity on the East border decide to come across. 

Hoss

[BuzzU]

That's really cool but it won't change how the trim moves in the sim.

[RodBorza]

On 1/30/2022 at 5:28 AM, brucewhf said:

P-47's control is very sensitive, small movement of the joystick can result in a massive pitch. I have to change the curve setting to 30% smoother to counteract this sensitivity, while 15% curve is enough for P-51.

 

I know ED used a real P-51 to make mustang as real as possible, but P-47 is also modeled by an official document which should be real too. So why P-47 is much harder to control than P-51?

 

Use the curves, Luke!

Also, the P-47 also has lots of torque, and any change on any setting of RPM or Manifold pressure, or boost, will change torque and will take the aircraft out of balance. You need to be always inputting rudder, always. I always keep an eye on the ball in the slip indicator, if you pay attention to it, you'll see that the ball moves like crazy to one side or the other. But once you apply rudder or rudder trim, you'll have a much more stable aircraft.

 

My curves are 24 for pitch, roll and rudder axis.