OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 hour ago, mbucchia said:

Pico on PC only supports OpenXR via SteamVR (like HTC Vive and Valve Index). You won't gain from OpenComposite, unless you want to use OpenXR Toolkit (but then you can also use vrperfkit without using OpenComposite).

(Pico does support OpenXR "natively" but only for Android apps running on the headset, not for PC apps).

Thanks but still confused.

I am running OpenXR Toolkit with OpenComposite for DCS World for my Rift S/Quest 2 with Oculus OpenXR and I have found it is not working for Pico 4 with obvious reason.

I try using the Streaming Assistant for Pico 4 which uses StreamVR using Stream native OpenXR. But what the DSC side to support OpenXR? Should I be using VRPerfKit as mentioned? Or is there anything else?

Thanks again.

[mbucchia]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Thanks but still confused.

I am running OpenXR Toolkit with OpenComposite for DCS World for my Rift S/Quest 2 with Oculus OpenXR and I have found it is not working for Pico 4 with obvious reason.

I try using the Streaming Assistant for Pico 4 which uses StreamVR using Stream native OpenXR. But what the DSC side to support OpenXR? Should I be using VRPerfKit as mentioned? Or is there anything else?

Thanks again.

My point was that _either way_ you will end up going through SteamVR. The idea behind OpenComposite is mainly to remove the need for SteamVR. But you cannot do that with Pico.

You had not mentioned that you were using OpenXR Toolkit so it wasn't clear. You can benefit from OpenComposite if you _prefer_ to use OpenXR Toolkit instead of vrperfkit. But if you are fine with just vrperfkit, then no need to use OpenComposite (keep things a little simpler).  That choice is up to you: which tool do you prefer?

You have 2 choices:

1) DCS (OpenVR) <-> vrperfkit <-> (OpenVR) SteamVR <-> Virtual Desktop <-> Pico headset

2) DCS (OpenVR) <-> OpenComposite (OpenXR) <-> OpenXR Toolkit <-> (OpenXR) SteamVR <-> Virtual Desktop <-> Pico headset

I suspect the overhead is comparable between the two paths, but you might have to measure it to be sure.

[Xthedarkknight99x]

 

Sweetie

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Xthedarkknight99x
Wasted my time posting anything

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

6 hours ago, mbucchia said:

You have 2 choices:

1) DCS (OpenVR) <-> vrperfkit <-> (OpenVR) SteamVR <-> Virtual Desktop <-> Pico headset

2) DCS (OpenVR) <-> OpenComposite (OpenXR) <-> OpenXR Toolkit <-> (OpenXR) SteamVR <-> Virtual Desktop <-> Pico headset

I suspect the overhead is comparable between the two paths, but you might have to measure it to be sure.

Sorry about that as I was still very confused. I run DCS Standalone if it helps to make things a little clearer.

Thanks for the help.

Questions:

1. Can I use Pico's Streaming Assistant as an option, it uses it own version of SteamVR anyway?

2. I would like to keep OpenCmposite so that I can switch between Quest2. The question is, do I still need to run OpenCompsite app to "turn of" SteamVR?

3. If I use VD, do I still need to start the VR Streamer option and then start DCS from, say, DCS update GUI Utility?

Thanks again.

 

[RealDCSpilot]

@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants Actually, you should be able to run DCS with Oculus' VR API because Virtual Desktop emulates a Quest 2 for PCVR. But i can't test it, because i have no Oculus runtime installed. You could try to run VD, then simply launch DCS via VD's "launch *.exe" function. Maybe you have to have Oculus home running too.

Edited November 19, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks, I will give it a shot

Update: Got it figured out, works excellent with VD + OpenComposite + (possibly) Oculus Home. No SteamVR needed!

Need more tests to confirm

Thanks again.

Edited November 19, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[nikoel]

4 hours ago, Xthedarkknight99x said:

Hey Guys, I wanted to ask if people experience Ground texture shake or Jutter and they just ignore it. Honestly I didn't know where else to post this but I don't think it needs its own thread.

The reason why I ask is no matter what I do.. I still continue to see the same studder and cannot get it to go away. Honestly guys in the community have already tried to help but as always I am unlucky and nothing seems to work. I Have literally been fighting this since 2020 when I swapped from a 8700k to a Ryzen 3900x(I Know now DCS likes single core IPC) All the parts for that pc where brand spanking new except my 2080ti and the monitors connected to it. I never had an issue with 2D performance but VR was always a struggle.

I then replaced the 3900 with a 5900x, as I couldn't get ahold of the 5800x3d. I got better frame time but still the Frame time of my cpu was always higher than my GPU. I could set all setting to low, lower the resolution and I would still see the Ground texture studder/shake. The only other place I would see  issues is with AI aircraft doing the wavy warp.

I am now on a 13700k 32gigs of ram and a 3090 with the SSD. I Still cannot get rid of the ground texture studder/shake. I can reduce it. But I can never eliminate it no matter what I do.

Now I've seen some people suggest running with out motion reprojection and I've tried that but then the entire world studders. I've tried doing the 60hz thing but the flicker hurts my eyes.

So I guess I am trying to get a sanity check. Because the only way for me to get a semi smooth tolerable experience is to turn on MR and lock it at 45 frames. I still get the ground studders but it does not happen every second.

 

 

Judging by your hardware, I'm guessing you have a G2? Step one *increase* settings until you are averaging around 50FPS. Then go into settings of the OpenXRToolkit and lock 45FPS; it will give you ghosting but will remove the judder. You can keep going up but the judder will re-appear at around 50-55fps

If it helps, when i went from my 3900X to 5800X3D I had huge judders and stutters because my FPS went up to 60-80, thus I was dropping frames

This works because of the way OpenXR/OpenComposite handles frame delivery. Giving you a sort of poor mans Vsync 

It will never be as smooth reprojection. But will give you the best picture with [in my opinion] best tradeoff between the stutters and <profanity>ty artefacts and image instability 

Alternatively try the Turbo Mode inside the Toolkit. I really didn't like what it did for me, but I know it works for some

Edited November 19, 2022 by nikoel

[Splashtrick68]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the work put in to give a much improved experience, I had tweaked and massaged settings as much as I could.. this tweak made a pretty big difference, even with a 4080. I had previously tweaked settings and used an oculus q2 before the G2 V2 and between Steam VR and Oculus VR the other 3070 I had definitely worked but not the experience I had hoped for. 

Installing a 4080 solved lots of woes of course, but I felt like the experience should be better and setting up per instructions, started with the repair tool, then open XR and followed to a T, I installed the OpenXR tools but haven't tweaked anything there yet. 

I can report an improved experience even with the 4080 for sure! I have a 5800x, 32gb and run off the NVME.. was a decent experience with the 3070 but again, between the upgrade and subsequently following this, I am now impressed. I haven't tried Multi Player yet but will give it a shot in near future. 

As a sidenote, I had run a Q2 thru the oculus app and the 4080, stable but this openXR w the G2 is much better, probably can say significantly so. I was never able to get close to controls with the Q2 in the F18 to really see, the G2 is technically similar but actually much better for anyone reading. 

I'm somewhat new, but is there any discussion by ED to implement this by default? Having DCS VR on OpenXR can't be that difficult I wouldn't think but again.. I have no idea.

Again, thank you! 

[simo1000rr]

Hello All , A new Rverb G2 user here , I just received it yesterday and im a little confused about installation so if any one can direct me through . 

1- Since i just received so Do i follow the normal procedure of installation of WMR and then Steam VR from Steam store Then after that follow the steps mentioned on this guide ??  Or do i skip the WMR step and Steam VR step and just install OpneXR tool etc .. ?? 

2- If the answer to question one is " No i have to install WMR and Steam VR prior to proceeding with open XR , Which WMR software to install , there is one comes with windows 10 and there is WMR in steam application ?  

3- lets say i setup everything and setup Open XR  and go to DCS and switch it to VR , now what is the everyday step to run DCS when u start ur PC , do you run Open XR everytime before running DCS or you just start DCS right away as you would normally do in 2D ?

If there is a guide for installing the Reverb G2 prior to installing OpenXR i would apercaite it as the search came up with guides from 2 years ago . 

 

Thank you in advance 

[speed-of-heat]

You don’t need to install steamvr, you do need wmr.

Once you select use the Vr headset in dcs, it should just work.

Once open composite is installed 

[simo1000rr]

24 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

You don’t need to install steamvr, you do need wmr.

Once you select use the Vr headset in dcs, it should just work.

Once open composite is installed 

Thank u very much . 

what if im planning to play other games in VR from Steam . should i still not install it ?

[speed-of-heat]

If you are planning to use other games on steamvr then , yes you should still install it, if those games are not compatible with open composite…

[mbucchia]

On 11/19/2022 at 10:21 AM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Thanks, I will give it a shot

Update: Got it figured out, works excellent with VD + OpenComposite + (possibly) Oculus Home. No SteamVR needed!

Need more tests to confirm

Thanks again.

 

Hey! I'm kinda curious to hear more about your set up here. I was under the impression that Virtual Desktop only worked as a SteamVR output, and therefore you had to setup SteamVR as your OpenXR runtime system-wide.

If you have a chance, can you send me your OpenXR Toolkit log file (you can open it from the Companion app). Thanks!

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

17 minutes ago, mbucchia said:

Hey! I'm kinda curious to hear more about your set up here. I was under the impression that Virtual Desktop only worked as a SteamVR output, and therefore you had to setup SteamVR as your OpenXR runtime system-wide.

If you have a chance, can you send me your OpenXR Toolkit log file (you can open it from the Companion app). Thanks!

 

XR_APILAYER_NOVENDOR_toolkit.log

[mbucchia]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

 

XR_APILAYER_NOVENDOR_toolkit.log 4.5 kB · 2 downloads

Cool thank you. I'll have to look into how to use VD with the Oculus OpenXR runtime like you are doing, I've been told time and time that it only worked with SteamVR as your OpenXR runtime.

PS: unrelated, but you have XRNS active twice on your setup. Probably a stale registry key from a past install under `HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Khronos\OpenXR\1\ApiLayers\Implicit`.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks. I have a silly little video demonstrating Pico4 actually works with OpenXR + OpenComposite.

As for the XRNS, I need to check and I guess it may be the reason it does not work in Pico4 but in Quest2 some how

[mbucchia]

On 11/21/2022 at 3:38 AM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Thanks. I have a silly little video demonstrating Pico4 actually works with OpenXR + OpenComposite.

As for the XRNS, I need to check and I guess it may be the reason it does not work in Pico4 but in Quest2 some how

After looking some more at your logs and your video, I'm sort of thinking that you are NOT using OpenXR, but your game is going through OVR (Legacy Oculus support).

You don't seem to have OpenXR Toolkit actually working (per comment on your video) and the log you posted also doesn't show OpenXR initializing all the way. And if XRNS doesn't work, it also makes me think you are not actually going through OpenXR.

This is great too (that you can run the game without SteamVR on your Pico), however I don't think you need OpenComposite (nor OpenXR Toolkit) to do that if using OVR mode.

Edited December 1, 2022 by mbucchia

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

3 hours ago, mbucchia said:

After looking some more at your logs and your video, I'm sort of thinking that you are NOT using OpenXR, but your game is going through OVR (Legacy Oculus support).

You don't seem to have OpenXR Toolkit actually working (per comment on your video) and the log you posted also doesn't show OpenXR initializing all the way. And if XRNS doesn't work, it also makes me think you are not actually going through OpenXR.

This is great too (that you can run the game without SteamVR on your Pico), however I don't think you need OpenComposite (nor OpenXR Toolkit) to do that if using OVR mode.

 

I tried again, and pressing CTRL+F2 does nothing.... I understand OpenXR is not officially supported, so I would wait.

Okay, may be after replacing the openvr_api.dll in DCS, I get this:

"opencomposite_dcs"...the XRNeckSafer works, the graphics is horrible and there are still a number of problems. Video coming soon.

Need more investigations.

Edited December 1, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Jumpjim]

I've been using OpenXR for quite a while on DCS with a lot of success.

 

After the latest DCS update it crashes on start everytime. Same in the Openbeta.

 

If I run the Opencomposite runtime switcher and select "Switch to SteamVR" then everything starts fine. Switch back to Opencomposite and it crashes.

Any ideas?

[nikoel]

1) Clean and repair DCS using Skatezilla (check all files, and check for extra files) and launch DCS

1.5) If that doesn't fix your issues, uninstall these three (I believe 'Developer Tools' is now just 'Tools') and go from the start of the guide. Since you have already gone through the steps it will take you 15min max

[Nate--IRL--]

Decided to get this up and running today after an unsuccessful attempt a few months ago. Initially I was really disappointed, FPS was terrible, Colour saturation and Sharpness I'd been using in the VRshader mod were gone. Everything looked terrible and Slow/Jerky.

OK so, I set the Colour Saturation and FSR in the OpenXR menu, now that is looking better than ever. Still had to fix the FPS, Decided to set the Render scale to 70% in the Open XR settings, et voila FPS is much higher than SteamVR and much much smoother. I can't tell the Difference in image quality between 70% and 100% - but I sure as <profanity> see the improvement in motion.

So happy to have finally put the time into getting this working, I can finally enjoy VR again.

Nate

[Jumpjim]

3 hours ago, nikoel said:

1) Clean and repair DCS using Skatezilla (check all files, and check for extra files) and launch DCS

1.5) If that doesn't fix your issues, uninstall these three (I believe 'Developer Tools' is now just 'Tools') and go from the start of the guide. Since you have already gone through the steps it will take you 15min max

Just been through, removed and reinstalled all three and still getting crashes on startup before i get to any menus.

[Glide]

So, it looks like there is some benefit to setting OpenXR Custom render scale to 200% with the G2 and DX12 and DLSS Performance (in the pretty sim) OR OpenXRTK with NIS scaling set to 60%ish.  Has anyone tested this?  This has made a huge improvement in the other sim performance in VR with the G2.  I suspect it has to do with the huge buffer the sim creates for the Openxr 200% resolution.  However, the sim never renders to this buffer when you have DX12 and DLSS or OpenxrTK with NIS scaling.  Going to test this today.

Edit: I flew my normal 2D settings, and it was amazing.  I have everything set to Let Windows Decide in WMR with MR Always ON.  PD 1.0.  It was locked at 30fps for some reason.   Also works with FSR.  Will test CAS tonight.

Edit: CAS was not smooth.  NIS Scaling works best IMHO, but I have a 3080Ti.  FSR looks great too.

Edit: I think this is placebo.  Performance is excellent with NIS scaling.  No Openxr setting change required.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Glide

[chichowalker]

On 12/4/2022 at 7:46 PM, Glide said:

So, it looks like there is some benefit to setting OpenXR Custom render scale to 200% with the G2 and DX12 and DLSS Performance (in the pretty sim) OR OpenXRTK with NIS scaling set to 60%ish.  Has anyone tested this?  This has made a huge improvement in the other sim performance in VR with the G2.  I suspect it has to do with the huge buffer the sim creates for the Openxr 200% resolution.  However, the sim never renders to this buffer when you have DX12 and DLSS or OpenxrTK with NIS scaling.  Going to test this today.

Edit: I flew my normal 2D settings, and it was amazing.  I have everything set to Let Windows Decide in WMR with MR Always ON.  PD 1.0.  It was locked at 30fps for some reason.   Also works with FSR.  Will test CAS tonight.

Edit: CAS was not smooth.  NIS Scaling works best IMHO, but I have a 3080Ti.  FSR looks great too.

Edit: I think this is placebo.  Performance is excellent with NIS scaling.  No Openxr setting change required.

 

I have tested this settings, 200 % in openxr tools slider and using NIS in toolkit with 60% size and 10 sharpen. MR always ON, very good performance with 3080 Ti and i7 9700k 64 Gb RAM. I was using 100 % render scale and 80% NIS size. I will mantain new settings for a while cos visual benefits in the cockpit are great!!!!!

[Glide]

8 hours ago, chichowalker said:

I have tested this settings, 200 % in openxr tools slider and using NIS in toolkit with 60% size and 10 sharpen. MR always ON, very good performance with 3080 Ti and i7 9700k 64 Gb RAM. I was using 100 % render scale and 80% NIS size. I will mantain new settings for a while cos visual benefits in the cockpit are great!!!!!

It does work, but I don't see any magic happening with those settings.  Right now I am running Openxr 100% with MR disabled, and only Foveated Rendering on Performance from the toolkit.  Make sure WMR is set to Best Visual Quality.  As well, I'm throwing a lot of load on the GPU, with 4xMSAA, and 2xSSAA, SSAO, and SSLR.  The strategy here is to keep the GPU loaded up at all times.  Low Latency Mode = Ultra in the NCP.  Somebody fixed something, because it's performing great with PD 1.0.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Glide