correct as is TGP-Mav handoff not working

[Wile E.]

I'm trying to practice launching mavericks from the F-16, so I created a simple mission. However auto handoff mode is not working for me. I boresighted the missiles at takeoff, so they are pointing in the correct direction. I press TMS up to create a point track, then TMS right to handoff. I see the handoff attempt message on the maverick MFD, and the T indicator turns into a 1 momentarily. But the crosshairs don't collapse on the target, and I don't get the C indicator. I also can't launch. The target is within range (4nm), it looks like it's in the keyhole, it's a very high contrast target, and it's right under the maverick crosshairs. I lined up the plane and put the game in active pause to investigate. I attached a screenshot of that. It did not hand off the target, but I was able to SOI the maverick, lock it up, and fire manually.

[Ignition]

I had the same issue trying to lock that tower. It works "ok" with vehicles.

Mavericks in DCS tend to lock anything but vehicles if they are close to a terrain object like buildings or street power poles, even if the vehicle is right in the center of the maverick sight.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Ignition

[Wile E.]

I tried again with some T-55s and it didn't make any difference. I did notice that if I switch the active missile using the NWS/Missile Step button, it immediately locks on and goes to C, even if I only have one missile left. I'll try to generate a track file today, with a simple example, and file a bug.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Wile E.

[BIGNEWY]

please include a short as possible track replay we will take a closer look. Please not we can not use unofficial mods. 

thank you

[Frederf]

That's an issue currently with how DCS is handling LAU-88. It's stepping through every missile and not stations like it's supposed to so you get weird results. With two missiles (LAU-117 on 3, LAU-117 on 7) this issue doesn't happen.

I've never seen a case where missile will track manually but won't handoff automatically unless there was a logic issue.

[Wile E.]

Here's my track file. I only have some maps and planes that I got from the ED store installed.

I performed an air start to take boresighting out of the equation. For the first tank, the handoff worked perfectly on the first attempt. I then circled around and lined up another tank on the TGP and pressed TMS up, to put the tank in point track followed by TMS right to hand off the target. I saw the handoff message on the MFD, but the status above the pylon number went from T to 1 to T and the missile didn't lock. I went into active pause to try it again a couple times without having to worry about keeping the plane lined up or flying past the target, and it went back to T each time. I then pressed NWS to select the next missile, followed by TMS right to hand off, and the missile locked, fired when I pressed the release button, and scored a hit.

mavHandoff.trk

[BIGNEWY]

Hi thanks for the track replay 

Sadly for me it never gets to the second tank, as the aircraft crashes. 

I have tested today myself and I am not seeing any issue with hand off, make sure you are inside the range of the missile before handing off, and also be aware of being to close, the first tank was close to minimum range when you engaged. 

 

 

 

[CoconutCockpit]

50 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have tested today myself and I am not seeing any issue with hand off

 

 

 

Hey @BIGNEWY could you maybe share your track file of where you show it works flawlessly? Because I've only had it happen to me a once or twice and it was just a single tank somewhere in the middle of nowhere. In any other more "mission-like" scenario -where it's not just a solitary tank waiting to be shot- the handoff always fails for me. However, if I just put the TGP on the target, switch to MAV page and TMS up, I get a good lock and can engage. 

Seeing a working handoff would be like seeing a unicorn to me

[Mik75]

Hi there! I have occassional issues with the handover as well. But I thought the handover was initiated with TMS fwd (TGP SOI and in AUTO mode, so no further TMS fwd with Mav video SOI is required)? 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Mik75

[Sacarino111]

HI.

Long time since I last did a handoff, but  I found that haveng a "similar" image had best resutls; I mena, I try to set the TGP in a zoom level more or less similar ot  the one on the Mav and the handoff happens more easily.

Just a small input.

Saca111

[BIGNEWY]

Attached my quick effort here, x2 handoffs, tried to be greedy and go for a third but aborted, never get greedy at close range

x2 handoff.trk

[Wile E.]

I watched the track file once and it looked correct. Why are the files so nondeterministic? Are they missing a few important variables like atmospheric changes? Or maybe applying the local machine's axis tuning to the raw stick inputs? I wonder if the active pause caused the issue. I can create another track file without active pause. I could also record a video, if that would help.

I was definitely in the middle of the range for the second shot, with the TGP square and maverick circle very close to the boresight. The cross on the mav MFD was in the middle of the keyhole, just a few pixels from the tank. And as soon as I cycled missiles to the other pylon it locked.

[Frederf]

14 hours ago, Wile E. said:

Here's my track file.

I'm looking. First thing I notice is that TGP is TV and missile is IIR which should not work as the image comparison step in the correlation may struggle or fail with the different images. The image comparison step doesn't seem to be modeled in DCS. Also I believe the MBC should automatically handle missile FOV and polarity as needed to match TGP.

The second pass was going to fail because the missile was in break lock mode ever since the failed attempt on the first pass. One of the significant issues is that slewing TGP in point track mode will cause an attempted handoff simply by releasing the cursor switch. I think this is not correct behavior and reliably messes up missile attacks. I believe the correct behavior is that the system won't attempt another handoff unless TMS forward is pressed and released even if the TGP is in point track mode throughout.

The big thing that Bignewy did differently than you is that after firing the first missile he took the TGP out of point track mode before slewing to the next target. This meant that when he ceased slewing no handoff was attempted until TMS forward was pressed then released.

Tracks are repeated instructions into the sim that the sim is interpreting as if they are the first time. In theory tracks are deterministic since the instructions and simulation should be the same. If the simulation is different code and/or if the instructions have some inaccuracies in reproduction then the same recipe will bake a different cake. The longer the track the more small differences will diverge the results.

Here's an example track showing the different behavior if point track is used while slewing with handoff enabled.

Handoff point area track.trk

Edited April 25, 2022 by Frederf

[Frederf]

From the first track at the 3:30 mark:

By releasing slew the handoff starts

And the handoff fails (as expected considering the alignment) and stays in this failed state for the rest of the flight. I don't know why the parallax is so high here. When I take over the track and slew both slaved together way off axis the alignment remains very good.

[Wile E.]

I ran my mission again, careful to not enter point track on the target until within maverick range and to disengage point track before slewing to the next target. When I followed those restrictions, it worked correctly each time for six missiles. Now the question is whether that's a real limitation in the Viper, or a bug in DCS.

[BIGNEWY]

As far as I am aware this is correct as is, we have not had any SME mention it is wrong to us. 

thanks

[skywalker22]

I never had any issues with handoff function in auto mode from TGP to WPN of Maverick lately. 

After handoff, make sure your MSC (Missile pointing cross) is inside the so called Keyhole (gimbal line of sight).