Axis assignment on disabled controller setting aircraft up with 50% collective applied

[FalcoGer]

When you hop into the aircraft and you don't touch your controls, the collective starts out at a non 0 position. When you then move your axis, it suddenly jumps to 0%. This is an issue especially with a hot start because I tend to get a few seconds of freeze when first loading into the helicopter, during that time the helicopter happily takes off and spins off into the ground, breaking the rotor blades or crashing into nearby aircraft or ground vehicles. The controls indicator in the change controls options show the axis being at 0% and even if I move it in the controls screen and then jump into the apache, the collective still starts out at 1/2 until i move it while I have control.

EDIT: The cause of this bug has been identified as an axis assignment on a controller that is set to disabled affecting the cockpit.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by FalcoGer

[Baldrick33]

I don't get that. Have you tried turning on/off the synch HOTAS controls in the Misc options?

Is your collective axis set as a slider?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Baldrick33

[FalcoGer]

It is not set as a slider. The axis is set to my JOY_Z axis on my thrustmaster warthog throttle. Synchronize Cockpit Controls with HOTAS controls at mission start is on. No other controls are set to be on that axis. Here is a tack.

Collective 50 percent.trk

I noticed that when I enter the options screen, the little indicator is also centered until I move the hardware, then it jumps. Even if I had the options window up before (same thing, even if I flew the aircraft before), when I enter the controls (or aircraft) again, it's centered (at 50%).

Am I supposed to set it as a slider?

Edited June 17, 2022 by FalcoGer

[FalcoGer]

I just did set it as a slider, it behaves the same way.

[Baldrick33]

It should be a slider. You may also need to invert it to work correctly with the WH throttle I cannot recall.

[FalcoGer]

I did set it as a slider and it behaved the same way. afterwards i checked again and the slider setting was still set.

I'm going to try again though, just to make sure I'm sane.

Edit: Yep. Still starts at 50% until the first input on that axis.

Edited June 17, 2022 by FalcoGer

[TOViper]

Hey Falco, have you tried it the other way by de-selecting the option "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start"?
I am asking because I have a similar issue on the Hind (SPAWN HOT), engines running, throttle is 100 forward on my Warthog, but engine RPM comes down once I click "Fly".

 

[FalcoGer]

I have not done such a thing. It's too late to test now. But even if it would work, it'd still be a workaround and this is a bug.

[Baldrick33]

When you get a chance can you screen shot your axis tuning settings? I used a WH throttle as a collective and didn’t see this issue and am intrigued!

[FalcoGer]

Again, when I open that axis tune window it's stuck at 50% exactly until I move the axis slightly, at which point it jumps to the new value. You can see the value I set on the hardware (0%) in the background.

Edited June 19, 2022 by FalcoGer

[Baldrick33]

Looks fine. My only observation is the EDTracker pro assignments to collective & cyclic but I have no idea if they could cause any issue.

Pretty sure I inverted the collective to make it increase when I pulled the WH throttle back but that was just preference (I don't use the WH throttle for collective any more preferring a makeshift collective setup with an old CH Pro joystick with the spring removed but that is another topic!)

 

[FalcoGer]

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

Looks fine. My only observation is the EDTracker pro assignments to collective & cyclic but I have no idea if they could cause any issue.

Pretty sure I inverted the collective to make it increase when I pulled the WH throttle back but that was just preference (I don't use the WH throttle for collective any more preferring a makeshift collective setup with an old CH Pro joystick with the spring removed but that is another topic!)

 

That device is "disabled". It shouldn't do anything.

[Scaley]

On 6/17/2022 at 7:11 PM, TOViper said:

Hey Falco, have you tried it the other way by de-selecting the option "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start"?
I am asking because I have a similar issue on the Hind (SPAWN HOT), engines running, throttle is 100 forward on my Warthog, but engine RPM comes down once I click "Fly".

 

This is the normal solution. In my experience (and many other people) the controls sync much better with "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" disabled. When this is disabled DCS makes some (very sensible) assumptions about the axis positions at startup like assuming throttle is idle, etc. Best to always have this off unless you have a specific reason for having it on.  Also best to just run all your axis up and down a little before you drop out of the briefing screen just to make sure DCS has detected everything. 

[FalcoGer]

1 hour ago, Scaley said:

This is the normal solution. In my experience (and many other people) the controls sync much better with "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" disabled. When this is disabled DCS makes some (very sensible) assumptions about the axis positions at startup like assuming throttle is idle, etc. Best to always have this off unless you have a specific reason for having it on.  Also best to just run all your axis up and down a little before you drop out of the briefing screen just to make sure DCS has detected everything. 

Again when I first jump into the cockpit, the game freezes for a second or three, during which time 50% collective is enough to throw the helicopter on it's side without me being able to do anything about it. And if leaving it on gives me 50% collective, then something is broken if the the physical axis is at 0%. I also do have a couple of hard switches that I like to be syncronized.

Edited June 19, 2022 by FalcoGer

[Kharrn]

if seen you have "force feedback" enabled in your game options (Misc). Afaik this can also produce some issues with the Apache (i read it some time ago but couldnt find the thread atm).

If you dont have an FB stick i suggest disabling it.

Hope this might help

[Recluse]

15 minutes ago, Kharrn said:

if seen you have "force feedback" enabled in your game options (Misc). Afaik this can also produce some issues with the Apache (i read it some time ago but couldnt find the thread atm).

If you dont have an FB stick i suggest disabling it.

Hope this might help

Yes. If Force Feedback is checked, none of the TRIM options actually work.   When I had that happen, I didn't see the other behavior described, though.   When I enter the cockpit, my cyclic and rudders are a bit off, so I have to do a quick wiggle to recenter them.  My collective stays reasonable stable, though when I first touch the collective, I get a little jump and ROTOR RPM HIGH warning, but it doesn't cause any drastic change in the helo attitude.  Also, I usually leave my collective (just regular throttle) fully "down" but at the MIL power detent vs. through the AB detent, so I do start off around 29% or so, which isn't quite enough to cause bad things to happen, but I probably should "zero" it out through the AB detent.

[Scaley]

5 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

Again when I first jump into the cockpit, the game freezes for a second or three, during which time 50% collective is enough to throw the helicopter on it's side without me being able to do anything about it. And if leaving it on gives me 50% collective, then something is broken if the the physical axis is at 0%. I also do have a couple of hard switches that I like to be syncronized.

 

Sounds like something is wrong with your setup or hardwear. Have you checked what the shows in the controls setup screen if it's accessed directly from the main DCS menu rather than in flight? Also, have you tried cycling the various axis after the mission has loaded while you are still on the briefing/pause screen. While you are looking at that screen the sim engine is running and will detect any axis movements or button presses. If you have stuff you want to sync then if you move/toggle them at that screen they will always be in sync regardless of the "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" setting

[BIGNEWY]

It is correct as is as far as I can see, I have always set my throttles and collectives as sliders. 

[FalcoGer]

On 6/20/2022 at 12:19 AM, Scaley said:

Sounds like something is wrong with your setup or hardwear. Have you checked what the shows in the controls setup screen if it's accessed directly from the main DCS menu rather than in flight? Also, have you tried cycling the various axis after the mission has loaded while you are still on the briefing/pause screen. While you are looking at that screen the sim engine is running and will detect any axis movements or button presses. If you have stuff you want to sync then if you move/toggle them at that screen they will always be in sync regardless of the "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" setting

Yes, I can move my axis during the briefing and it will be 50% if i don't move it after fly. Playing online, there is no pause to move the axis in generally, and the problem happens again if I grab a new aircraft anyway.

 

On 6/20/2022 at 2:19 PM, BIGNEWY said:

It is correct as is as far as I can see, I have always set my throttles and collectives as sliders. 

I don't see the collective reading 50% for no reason to be correct as is...

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

I don't see the collective reading 50% for no reason to be correct as is...

I see what you are saying now, It is showing 50% in the fine tuning as you need to move the axis for it to register in that window

[Baldrick33]

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I see what you are saying now, It is showing 50% in the fine tuning as you need to move the axis for it to register in that window

Mine shows 50% initially in axis tuning until I move the controller but I don’t have any issue when I click on fly now like @FalcoGeris describing, the virtual collective matches my physical one at 0. I don’t get the game freeze at start up either though.

[FalcoGer]

Maybe I should make a video since track files only record when the simulation is actually running and don't capture the menu or anything like it. I shall edit this here post after that video is done.

 

Edit: I didn't change a single thing, there was no updates... and suddenly it just starts at 0 as it's supposed to. I'm confused...

Edited June 21, 2022 by FalcoGer

[BIGNEWY]

17 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

Edit: I didn't change a single thing, there was no updates... and suddenly it just starts at 0 as it's supposed to. I'm confused...

I have days like that dont worry

[xmudroller]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:46 AM, Scaley said:

This is the normal solution. In my experience (and many other people) the controls sync much better with "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" disabled. When this is disabled DCS makes some (very sensible) assumptions about the axis positions at startup like assuming throttle is idle, etc. Best to always have this off unless you have a specific reason for having it on.  Also best to just run all your axis up and down a little before you drop out of the briefing screen just to make sure DCS has detected everything. 

Have you tried calibration thru windows.

[admiki]

5 hours ago, xmudroller said:

Have you tried calibration thru windows.

Some peripherals that store settings on device itself do not like to do calibration through Windows, like Virpil or VKB.