Carrier Ops - Coming Back with Bombs

[bonesvf103]

I know that in the real world alot of aircraft will jettison their unspent Mk82s or other iron dumb bombs before trapping so that live ordnance doesn't get knocked off onto the carrier deck and cause a disaster.

But what about if the ordnance was something more, well, pricey?  Like a GBU-24 or a GBU-38?  Do they still want you to jettison those before trapping?

What about missiles?  Especially the $1.5 million Phoenix?

v6,

boNes

Edited July 5, 2022 by bonesvf103

[Nealius]

They try to bring back as much as they can. All of these are factored into planning, and it's one of the many reasons why you'll see operational photos of Hornets carry very little ordnance. During Southern Watch, for example, a Legacy Hornet may launch with only 1 AGM88 and 1 CBU99. I can't check exact numbers but if you had to come back with that you should still be able to trap with about 2000~2500lbs of fuel left, just hazarding a guess from my typical bringback payload (3500~4000lbs with ATFLIR, 2 heaters and a Slammer).

I don't think Tomcats ever flew with more than 2 fat bois at a time. The 4 or 6 payloads were "doomsday" payloads when they were sure to fire most or all of them off in defense of the fleet.

[Spock14]

Usually you either drop the Bombs on your target or bring them back to the boat. Just in rare emergency situations bombs get jettisoned. 

IRL you also have to factor in that stations coud get hung. So the effective payload for Hornet is pretty low, which was improved with the Superhornet. Thats why the usually fly with only 1 Sidewinder maybe a 120C for self protection and the desired A/G loadout. Even that is most likely a double ugly loadout with station 3 Empty (without the pylon) for FLIR FOV, a Bomb and a A/G Missile, depending on the mission  obviously. But if it almost certain you drop your loadout you can fly off with an unrecoverable loadout. 

2000lbs to 2500lbs would be way to low for trap fuel. Usually the CAG determins the Tankstate which is more like 3000 to 3500lbs plus the required traps. So Tankstate plus 3, Case I, would give you 5000lbs as trap fuel. So the payload is Max Trap weight, 34k unrestricted or 33k restricted, minus BEW + Trapfuel. 

That will give you 3 approaches. On the last approach you are considered Bingo on the Ball, and if you Bolter again you need to go to the tanker. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Spock14

[Nealius]

3 hours ago, Spock14 said:

2000lbs to 2500lbs would be way to low for trap fuel. Usually the CAG determins the Tankstate which is more like 3000 to 3500lbs plus the required traps. So Tankstate plus 3, Case I, would give you 5000lbs as trap fuel.

5,000lbs with centerline tank, two Sidewinders, one AMRAAM, and ATFLIR is right at restricted trap weight according to the sim. Are our weight calculations funky or would they lower the Tankstate if a jet had to bring back more than 1,000lbs of ordnance (State 4.0 or less)?

Edited July 6, 2022 by Nealius

[bonesvf103]

What about external fuel tanks?  I heard somewhere that they don't like you to jettison those when they are empty even though it would help your fuel endurance but the only reason why they didn't like it is because they cost money--well, also probably because they can be reused too.  But why haul around empty bags when fuel is critical, right?

v6,

boNes

[Spock14]

Am 6.7.2022 um 14:38 schrieb Nealius:

5,000lbs with centerline tank, two Sidewinders, one AMRAAM, and ATFLIR is right at restricted trap weight according to the sim. Are our weight calculations funky or would they lower the Tankstate if a jet had to bring back more than 1,000lbs of ordnance (State 4.0 or less)?

 

Well they could lower either traps or tankstate. I did not check in the game but making a rough calculation on paper. 

1. Empty
2. AGM65E
3. Empty
4. ATFLIR
5. FPU-8
6. AIM120C
7. Pylon 
8. GBU38
9. AIM9x 

Gives me a payload weight of roughly 3000lbs. Lets say 25.5 BEW+Payload = 28.5 +5 for fuel gives us roughly 33.5 Trap weight. Always correct me if I am wrong but that sounds logical to me and I like logical stuff

I vaguely remeber a DCS weigt bug. I don´t know if it still exists.  

 

vor 17 Stunden schrieb bonesvf103:

What about external fuel tanks?  I heard somewhere that they don't like you to jettison those when they are empty even though it would help your fuel endurance but the only reason why they didn't like it is because they cost money--well, also probably because they can be reused too.  But why haul around empty bags when fuel is critical, right?

v6,

boNes

Well as you said, EXT tanks cost money, in normal ops you don´t want to waste money. Also there is only a limited amount available on the carrier so you just don´t want them to drop them into the sink. As always it depends on the situation, however it is save to say that in most cases they bring back the empty bags. Dump the fuel in the bags but not the bags.

[draconus]

19 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

But why haul around empty bags when fuel is critical, right?

Normal procedures avoid getting into problems like critical fuel or a merge but in emergency pilot has to do what it takes to survive.

Edited July 8, 2022 by draconus

[Nealius]

4 hours ago, Spock14 said:

Well they could lower either traps or tankstate. I did not check in the game but making a rough calculation on paper. 

1. Empty
2. AGM65E
3. Empty
4. ATFLIR
5. FPU-8
6. AIM120C
7. Pylon 
8. GBU38
9. AIM9x 

Gives me a payload weight of roughly 3000lbs. Lets say 25.5 BEW+Payload = 28.5 +5 for fuel gives us roughly 33.5 Trap weight. Always correct me if I am wrong but that sounds logical to me and I like logical stuff

I vaguely remeber a DCS weigt bug. I don´t know if it still exists.  

Testing that load (plus 100% gun ammo) in the mission editor to get 33.5 trap weight (closest the sim will let us get is 33,504lbs) gives a fuel weight of 4,081lbs. Would that be +4 instead of +5?

[Spock14]

Am 8.7.2022 um 14:55 schrieb Nealius:

Testing that load (plus 100% gun ammo) in the mission editor to get 33.5 trap weight (closest the sim will let us get is 33,504lbs) gives a fuel weight of 4,081lbs. Would that be +4 instead of +5?

Yeah you could say Tankstate is 3500 plus 2, that would give you 4500lbs which puts you right on max restricted trap weight. I need to check it in DCS. Anyway thats the lowest fuel state you wanna have for the first trap, but you always try to stay on max trap fuel. 

I need to check the loadout in DCS though.

[Swift.]

On 7/12/2022 at 5:49 AM, Spock14 said:

Yeah you could say Tankstate is 3500 plus 2, that would give you 4500lbs which puts you right on max restricted trap weight. I need to check it in DCS. Anyway thats the lowest fuel state you wanna have for the first trap, but you always try to stay on max trap fuel. 

I need to check the loadout in DCS though.

The numbers I was told for a typical tank state was 3k. With a typical Tank+2 on the ball. So only 4k for case1 and 5k for case3.