AAR again

[Leviathan667]

Hi,

After two years away from the F-14, I've been practicing AAR with the F-14A. 

One of the attempts proved extremely difficult. The tanker was flying at 270 kts CAS, there was some crosswind and turbulence. My aircraft could not be easily directed and kept level. Eventually, even after connecting with the drogue, I could not keep the plane in a steady formation with the tanker. See video.

How would you deal with this situation? Is it even appropriate to refuel in this setting? 

 

 

 

 

[lunaticfringe]

1. You're not effectively trimmed.  You think you are, but you're not.  The amount of oscillation is based on how far you are off level trim, versus how large your throttle adjustments are. 

2. You're approaching too fast.  This is observed by how hard the drogue model snaps to the probe once the bounding boxes align as valid, and still you're moving well forward of the contact point before finally getting the closure to stop.  And the instant you finally get the drift towards the refueled to stop, the PIO kicks in because of how far off trim is; any throttle correction changes relative trim based on the minor speed change, so the farther these values are off to be correct, the bigger the shift is going to be as you go on and off the gas. 

Trim it up. Walk it in.  Walk.  Don't run.  You will confirm how far off of trim you are by taking one foot per second bites, rather than the whole gulp.  If you're stable enough to plug at a slow approach from pre-contact, you're going to stay in the basket.

As to visibility, lower your eye level using the control keys found in the view menu.  This will provide proper visibility of the cues required to make AAR work.  

[Callsign JoNay]

Apply some yaw trim. 

[Uxi]

I just did it today in the F-14A and took about 12k pounds with no problem after a couple months.  Easy in first try and stayed connected.  

[Bremspropeller]

Wings at 40 instead of BOMB also helps a bit.

[Leviathan667]

Thanks for your insights.

 

I did follow your advice:

@BremspropellerWings at 40 (I thought if they were at less than 55 or bomb mode, maneuver flaps would occasionally kick and destabilize the plane while in AAR?)

@Callsign JoNayI did the yaw trim thing and it helped remain behind the pod.

@lunaticfringeDid approach more slowly and when affected by turbulence,  I tried to let it run its course to avoid PIO. It has made it harder to catch the basket (took me 14 mins!) since it is wobbling but when I caught it I could stay connect for more than 1 min so it's a huge improvement compared to yesterday).

I made a Caucasus mission using the same settings (weather, altitude, speed) at the Zone 5 mission 0 I flew yesterday. You may try it too and share more of your insights? DOWNLOAD THE ATTACHED FILE.

I did record the whole thing too:

 

 

F14A AAR turb.miz

[Bremspropeller]

Glad you're seeing some progress there! The one thing left to do is practice. Not just AAR, but generally flying formation and staton-keeping. It makes you think less and do more - if that makes sense.

The maneuver-flaps should not be an issue normally, unless your altitude is way high. If you stick to tanking in the low twenties or high teens, then maneuver-flaps should not be an issue. The reason why I prefer 40° (apart from it being recommended in the NATOPS) vs BOMB is that if gives you a less nose-heavy and a less roll-willing aircraft. It generally feels nicer.

One thing you will notice once you manage to hang onto the basket a little longer is that the aircraft can recieve a really significant amount of fuel. You will need to gradually give it more power and re-trim when on the hose. Make sure your external tanks are getting fuel so you'll see what taking 15000lbs at once (I know HIGHLY realistic) feels like.

After getting proficient on the 135, try tanking from other aircraft. I find the KC-130 easiest and the S-3B hardest (mostly because you can't see much of that little /(&/()%(/& in the first place).

And most importantly, if it stops being fun, stop and do something else for a while. Next time you try, you'll most probably see an improvement.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

The reason why I prefer 40° (apart from it being recommended in the NATOPS) vs BOMB...

What NATOPS recommended 40°?

[Bremspropeller]

38 minutes ago, draconus said:

What NATOPS recommended 40°?

The one that says optimum airspeed is 240KIAS and optimum wing-sweep is about 40° - or 200KIAS and 40° with SAS off.

[Leviathan667]

32 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The one that says optimum airspeed is 240KIAS and optimum wing-sweep is about 40° - or 200KIAS and 40° with SAS off.

So there are circumstances where we need to turn SAS off? What are they?

[captain_dalan]

3 hours ago, Leviathan667 said:

Thanks for your insights.

 

I did follow your advice:

@BremspropellerWings at 40 (I thought if they were at less than 55 or bomb mode, maneuver flaps would occasionally kick and destabilize the plane while in AAR?)

@Callsign JoNayI did the yaw trim thing and it helped remain behind the pod.

@lunaticfringeDid approach more slowly and when affected by turbulence,  I tried to let it run its course to avoid PIO. It has made it harder to catch the basket (took me 14 mins!) since it is wobbling but when I caught it I could stay connect for more than 1 min so it's a huge improvement compared to yesterday).

I made a Caucasus mission using the same settings (weather, altitude, speed) at the Zone 5 mission 0 I flew yesterday. You may try it too and share more of your insights? DOWNLOAD THE ATTACHED FILE.

I did record the whole thing too:

 

 

F14A AAR turb.miz 10.34 kB · 0 downloads

To avoid the turbulence, approach not from behind or from the side, but rather from bellow.

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

The one that says optimum airspeed is 240KIAS and optimum wing-sweep is about 40° - or 200KIAS and 40° with SAS off.

Got it, thx, forgot that part

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:02 PM, Leviathan667 said:

Thanks for your insights.

 

I did follow your advice:

@BremspropellerWings at 40 (I thought if they were at less than 55 or bomb mode, maneuver flaps would occasionally kick and destabilize the plane while in AAR?)

@Callsign JoNayI did the yaw trim thing and it helped remain behind the pod.

@lunaticfringeDid approach more slowly and when affected by turbulence,  I tried to let it run its course to avoid PIO. It has made it harder to catch the basket (took me 14 mins!) since it is wobbling but when I caught it I could stay connect for more than 1 min so it's a huge improvement compared to yesterday).

I made a Caucasus mission using the same settings (weather, altitude, speed) at the Zone 5 mission 0 I flew yesterday. You may try it too and share more of your insights? DOWNLOAD THE ATTACHED FILE.

I did record the whole thing too:

 

 

F14A AAR turb.miz 10.34 kB · 1 download

sorry im late for the party.
lower your seat so you can see the tanker wingtip red light. Put that damn light right at the center of the front windshield, and your lateral spacing will be golden. You can see the thumbnail of that video, even though the red light is slighty offset to the right.
The wingtip light will help you even for when the tanker is turning. That´s why seeing it is paramount.