Infantry FPS Control

[draconus]

15 hours ago, Hobel said:

what else do I need?

FPS mode infantry, RPG/MANPAD and driver seats for vehicles plus VR compatibility.

[Hobel]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb draconus:

FPS mode infantry, RPG/MANPAD and driver seats for vehicles plus VR compatibility.

Agree

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Harzach:

Arma is frequently referred to as a "walking simulator." The most popular terrains are the smaller, more highly-detailed ones.

And? 

Have you ever played a pvp mission in dcs?   Like blue flag?  The helicopter pilots build a fob near the combat zone and depending on the possibility of the fob there are vehicles that can be used or the heli pilots bring the inf from the fob even closer and already the mission range is broken down to a "normal" measure for the FPS mission and you don't have to run more than in Arma or squad.

[3WA]

Well, that new Unreal Engine 5.2 WHOLE WORLD sim is about to come out, and it's going to be FPS and Air / Ground / Sea Study Level vehicle sim.  So you're about to have competition on a Modern Engine.

Edited May 30, 2023 by 3WA

[Butcher868]

Am 28.5.2023 um 16:21 schrieb Hobel:

Basically yes, CA still has a lot of potential and some details could be worked out, but what do they expect from tanks or vehicles?
 

As an example, what more can you do with a Sa-15 than what I show in the video, basically all the functions are there and I am able to reconnoiter and shoot down aircraft.

the same with the tank and APC.
Multiple zoom levels, IR, laser rangefinder and an automatic fire solution what else do I need?

 

PvP Gameplay

 

 

Better Cockpitviews, FP(first person) control for all units (Ships, Infantry, s300, etc), an Ordermenu in FP to give orders to other vehicles in my group, better damagemodel, better movement, better KI for groundfights (in my opinion the KI is in god mode at the moment). And many more.

[Bestiajez]

En 24/7/2022 a las 19:57, Cyan_Knight dijo:

Soy consciente de que esto podría ser un desafío, pero si hubiera una manera de habilitar el control en primera persona de una unidad de infantería, similar a la del manpad, solo con acciones mejoradas y animaciones de movimiento. Eso probablemente traería incluso a algunos jugadores de Arma 3 a este juego y permitiría una forma completamente nueva de simulación, especialmente con la capacidad del Apache para cazar alrededor de los árboles.

I started a couple of weeks ago to develop the mod you say. I'm still in the information gathering phase. I know attempts have been made, but they all stayed in the development phase. It is an arduous and complicated task, but from what I have seen not impossible. I did an experiment replacing the skin of a vehicle with an infantryman. The result was bad, but promising. As they have already said, it will not be similar to weapon 3 in any way, since we do not have building interiors or many other things, but if it works, it will work, you can make specialists from a base soldier (Rifleman), like medics , engineers, snipers etc. I don't know how long the job will take me since I'm new to modding. but to be done, it will be done.

[Apocalypse31]

3 hours ago, Bestiajez said:

I started a couple of weeks ago to develop the mod you say. I'm still in the information gathering phase. I know attempts have been made, but they all stayed in the development phase. It is an arduous and complicated task, but from what I have seen not impossible. I did an experiment replacing the skin of a vehicle with an infantryman. The result was bad, but promising. As they have already said, it will not be similar to weapon 3 in any way, since we do not have building interiors or many other things, but if it works, it will work, you can make specialists from a base soldier (Rifleman), like medics , engineers, snipers etc. I don't know how long the job will take me since I'm new to modding. but to be done, it will be done.

Your efforts are appreciated. Thank you

[Silver_Dragon]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:46 AM, 3WA said:

Well, that new Unreal Engine 5.2 WHOLE WORLD sim is about to come out, and it's going to be FPS and Air / Ground / Sea Study Level vehicle sim.  So you're about to have competition on a Modern Engine.

 

Repeat ever and ever the same not change nothing...

 

On 7/30/2023 at 10:36 AM, Bestiajez said:

I started a couple of weeks ago to develop the mod you say. I'm still in the information gathering phase. I know attempts have been made, but they all stayed in the development phase. It is an arduous and complicated task, but from what I have seen not impossible. I did an experiment replacing the skin of a vehicle with an infantryman. The result was bad, but promising. As they have already said, it will not be similar to weapon 3 in any way, since we do not have building interiors or many other things, but if it works, it will work, you can make specialists from a base soldier (Rifleman), like medics , engineers, snipers etc. I don't know how long the job will take me since I'm new to modding. but to be done, it will be done.

The main problem has know the funtionality of the "hardcoded" infantry. A vehicle cant make the same of a infantry unit by some limitation on DLLs.

[Bestiajez]

En 31/7/2023 a las 16:01, Silver_Dragon dijo:

Repeat ever and ever the same not change nothing...

 

The main problem has know the funtionality of the "hardcoded" infantry. A vehicle cant make the same of a infantry unit by some limitation on DLLs.

No no. obviously cannot do the same. what I did was simply an experiment. I am currently working on the definition of the new weapons and implementing them in the mod. The main problem right now is that I have reached the same point where another well-known modder has. the mods literally "fall" to the ground when taking the first step. There are several models of soldiers integrated into DCS that I really don't know what they are used for...they don't appear as AI units, but there they are, with everything ready to be used...and they would be very valid to be used bazar/world/shapes/soldier_us_00.edm for example... look at it with modwieviewer and you'll see that it completes all the functions... I'll keep investigating.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 5/29/2023 at 7:46 PM, 3WA said:

Well, that new Unreal Engine 5.2 WHOLE WORLD sim is about to come out, and it's going to be FPS and Air / Ground / Sea Study Level vehicle sim.  So you're about to have competition on a Modern Engine.

 

Which one would that be?

[Silver_Dragon]

14 hours ago, Bestiajez said:

No no. obviously cannot do the same. what I did was simply an experiment. I am currently working on the definition of the new weapons and implementing them in the mod. The main problem right now is that I have reached the same point where another well-known modder has. the mods literally "fall" to the ground when taking the first step. There are several models of soldiers integrated into DCS that I really don't know what they are used for...they don't appear as AI units, but there they are, with everything ready to be used...and they would be very valid to be used bazar/world/shapes/soldier_us_00.edm for example... look at it with modwieviewer and you'll see that it completes all the functions... I'll keep investigating.

The soldier_us_00.edm has old, from some updates over infantry, some years ago (2017-18 I think).

On fact, has some quality levels of intantry on DCS (By order):

1. Old LOMAC / FC infantry:
   1. Georgian
      1. RPG soldier (rewamp copy of Insungence RPG)
   2. Insurgence (Used on others countries).
      1. Infantry with AK
      2. Infantry with RPG-16
      3. MANPADS Sa-18 Gunner
      4. MANPADS Sa-18 HQ
      5. MANPADS Stinger (Rewamp of US MANPADS Stinger HQ).
   3. Russian
      1. Parachute infantry with AK
      2. Parachute infantry with RPG-16
      3. MANPADS Sa-18 Igla gunner (Rewamp of Insurgence Sa-18 Gunner)
      4. MANPADS Sa-18 Igla HQ (Rewamp of Insurgence Sa-18 HQ)
      5. MANPADS Sa-18 Igla-S HQ
   4. US:
      1. M4
      2. M240
      3. JTAC (on fact a rewamp copy of MANPADS Stinger HQ and used on other countries).
      4. MANPADS Stinger HQ (Used on JTAC).
2. Updates on DCS World (11-15 animations)
   1. Georgian
      1. Infantry with M4
   2. Insurgence
      1. Insurgence with AK-74
      2. Insurgence Stinger gunner (Rewampo of USA Stinger Gunner).
   3. USA
      1. The "never" used soldier_us_00.edm (Infantry M4 ver1?)
      2. MANPADS Stinger Gunner (Used on other countries)
   4. Russia
      1. Infantry AK-74 ver1
      2. Infantry AK-74 ver2
      3. Infantry AK-74 ver3
      4. MANPADS Sa-18 Igla-S Gunner (Used on other countries).
3. WW2 Assets Pack (10 animations)
   1. Germany Axis
      1. Infantry with Mauser 98
   2. UK
      1. Infantry SMLE num.4 Mk1
   3. USA
      1. Parachute infantry with M1 Garand

Others outside them has the Supercarrier Ground Crew (has not EDMs), and the future in progress update infantry.

[ARM505]

....and on the graphics front, not that we'd want a direct comparison (entirely different genres) but the success of Battlebit shows you don't need absolute graphical fidelity to have a fun game.

But that's not the purpose of what we're aiming for of course. A first person view is the just the building block of a LOT of other things. And it doesn't need to be a game mode by itself. It should just be to support what DCS is. That 'granularity' or 'small blade of grass' view is needed for the detail of helicopter/AFV operations. It wouldn't take much to provide basic 'human' movement to what is already in the game. Having your pilot walk is already there. He just needs to run/crouch/go prone, and move in a less ridiculous manner in general for Step 1.

[Silver_Dragon]

Running is also implemented, in the MANPADS, and kneeling is part of the animations in the modelview, the problem is that no pilot or MANPADS has such an animation implemented for use within DCS World, there are no animations for lying on the ground or standing up.

The animations for infantry models per DCS World arguments are:
 

• 0.- right to left torso movement. * Movement of lowering from the cockpit (Gunner? AH-64)
• 1.- torso down to up movement. * Movement down from the cockpit (Pilot? AH-64)
• 2.- Not used
• 3.- Weapon at rest to aim. * Animation of the parachute touching the ground with action of disconnecting it and rising.
• 4.- Kneeling motion.
• 5.- Walking movement.
• 6.- Running movement.
• 7.- Start / Finish walking / running * Lateral circle movement
• 8.- Death movement and fall to the ground.
• 9.- Not used
• 10.- The head disappears (probably to use the head movement in a separate model);
• 11-12.- Not used
• 13.- Firing and recoil movement of the weapon
• 14.- Magazine reloading movement.
• 15.- Movement of being in position. * Breathing
• 16.- Sideways facing movement. * To be in position
• 17.- Textures and shapes of the head
• 23.- Old animation of fire without animation, only fire from the muzzle of the gun.
• 70.- * Different pilot helmets (some 3rd parties).

The pilots have different arguments and they don't have animations for shooting or kneeling and there are arguments that don't exist.

I have the impression that all these animations through arguments are in disuse and discarded by ED, towards a system very similar to the deck crew of the aircraft carriers, where we have a 3D rigging model and the animations are separate, through 3D skeletal models such as 3DS Max. The problem remains because we don't know how we could use it for Mods without the SDK.

 

[Bestiajez]

I already checked the operation of the manpads and it would be suitable for a model like infantry with AK or the Georgian with M4. The serious question is how to make any manpad behave like one of the aforementioned mods. Regarding the creation of new weapons, I don't think it would be a problem defining them in a .lua, as many as mods we want. I have some, a beretta M9, a HK_G36, a Barrett etc. although crude, the problem is the movements... and that it doesn't fall to the ground when starting to walk. Someone solved that problem with a skin of the skydiver with AK, making him go constantly on his knees, I saw a video and it was funny, but a base to start from. I think ED threw it at him. I tried to replace the shapes of a BTR of CH for those of the insulgent with AK...it's a model that is kneeling, and it worked, but obviously it moved like a vehicle and fired like one. You can define an AK, that's not a problem. The main problem is that when you kneel your point of vision is very low and it mixes with the grass on the ground. only sees well on clear terrain.
More ideas?

[Silver_Dragon]

By the last Wags interview (08/08/2023).

• Soldier and Soldiers animations on DCS has very old animations and technology, on progress with new soldier animations and technology.
• About "ground combat" on DCS, (the air environment) the 4th Gen aircraft has near to reach to make all available aircrafts, move to Cold War aircrafts, Century series, WW2, moving to the Pacific on WW2, but the ground, with a level terrain on DCS, not sure if will or not come to DCS, not sure, but that is not if, as a when start to work on them (no a CA), a simulator with Abrams, A-10 and AH-64 will be great.
• C-130 cargo version on progress by 3rd Party. Cargo transport funtionality as part of DCS funtionality build by ED.
• ED has building pararatroopers.
• Logistic side on the CH-53 / C-130 modules, not only as a extension of old warehouses, funtional on helos / aircrafts, implemented on the dinamic campaign, with players fly missions to resupply. (Not sure if include troop transport).
• Destructible trees on plans someday on far future.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[HappyVoo]

Some teams use infantry instead of tank models to simulate combat experience, and adjust the attributes of the infantry to connect with the squadron's helicopter flight pick-up mission.

When Chinook was released, I didn't want to be faced with a bunch of emotionless AI units and watch them act like boring machines. Helicopter players also want real ground interaction.

In addition, there are many factors to consider when launching a complete FPS. Putting aside FPS, FOV and other sight animation issues, for example, where should player permissions be placed? Continue the CA control method? There are also the same slot selection as aircraft, the issue of unit rebirth after death, the issue of whether infantry units need to be equipped, the issue of medical effects, and the issue of whether it conforms to the current game terrain map.

I dare not expect such huge content, but I also hope that the infantry that can simply replace the tank model can satisfy the interactive desire of helicopter pilots.

Edited January 15 by HappyVoo