Certain modules - A-10C (I and II), Harrier, F-14 and Mirage 2000 - lighting axes don't start until 50% rotation on knobs

[imacken]

I noticed that all my lighting control axes on certain modules don't start turning the cockpit dials until 50% rotation on my controllers, i.e. 0-50% does nothing.

Looks OK with full defection in Axis settings.  I've also tried changing to/from slider, but no difference.

Modules affected: A-10C (I and II), Harrier, F-14 and Mirage 2000.

Modules not affected: Hornet, Viper, Viggen, Bf109-K4, F-5E, P-51, Spitfire, Huey and T-51P.

I have tried different devices for the bindings, but always the same issue.

Any ideas?

[imacken]

My other thread on this in the F-14 forum showed more discussion and others experiencing the same thing - although the dev responding didn't seem to 'get' the issue.

Does this section get monitored by ED at all or should I post somewhere else?

[SkateZilla]

As Stated in that thread:
 

Because the Controller is Setup to where 50% Rotation is actually Reading 0, anything below 50%, is -1 to -255, and anything above is 1 to 255.

Dials are usually 0-> 255, 

What controller are you using? (are you setting it to a Button, a Ministick, Slider or roller?)

Have you checked the Axis Slider Checkbox to make it a 0-> 255 Slider instead of a -255 -> 0 -> 255 Dual Range Axis?

[imacken]

Thanks Skate. However, it's not the controller that is the issue as ANY of my controller devices - see signature - exhibit the same issue and only for lighting axes in certain modules.

As I said in the other thread, it is only F-14, Harrier, A-10C and M2000 lighting axes that exhibit this issue.  All other modules lighting axes work fine with the same device knobs/axes.

Let me expand a bit,

1) if I bind the A-10C lighting knobs AXES to any knob on any device, e.g. Virpil CM3 throttle, Total Controls MFBB, Virpil Control Panel2, etc., then the in-game knob does not start activating till 50% of device knob travel.

2) if I do the same binds as 1) to lighting knobs in ANY other module, e.g. Hornet, Viper, Spitfire etc., then this behaviour does not occur.  Full 0-100% range works fine.

3) if I bind the same knobs in the affected modules in 1), to a non-lighting in-game AXIS knob in the same modules then the issue does not occur, full 0-100% synchronised travel on device and in-game knobs.

Any further thoughts?

[MAXsenna]

22 minutes ago, imacken said:

Any further thoughts?

You didn't answer his question. Did you set the axis as sliders in the axis tuning? 

I have to do this for all sliders that goes from 0-100 to act correctly. throttle/collective/toe brakes etc.

 

[imacken]

Sorry, I answered that in the other thread. It makes no difference if the control is set to slider or not. 
 

 

[SkateZilla]

Provide

AIRCRAFT -> INPUT NAME -> MAPPED TO NAME, SCREENSHOT OF AXIS SETTINGS
 

Ie A-10C II, TDC SLEW -> MAPPED TO WARTHOG THROTTLE MINISTICK.

 

cause if your mapping something to a button, -255 to 0 is ignored, 0 - 255 is read, but 0 - off, 1+ equals on,

so if you trying to map a Button to axis on a controller it wont work as an axis.

Some aircraft have an Axis Slew, some have a Hat Slew which is an 8 way button.

[imacken]

Thanks again.

See attached. Harr1 shows the axis bind with knob near 0% turn, harr2 shows it at 100%, harr3 shows the axis tune and harr4 shows the workaround I have to use to make it work in 4 modules only.

hor1 shows the same controller knob in the Hornet bound to a light panel item and it works perfectly from 0-100%.

Let me say again, this is only light axes in 4 modules. In any of these 4, if I bind the same controller knob to a NON-lighting axis, all is good.

In the Harrier example: Harrier>Console Lights Brt>mapped to (in this case it's) axis Y of my Total Controls MFBB, but it could be any axis on any of my devices. Same effect.

 

[MAXsenna]

25 minutes ago, imacken said:

Sorry, I answered that in the other thread. It makes no difference if the control is set to slider or not. 
 

 

Roger! Missed that, sorry!

Anyway, I can confirm the behavior. Tested with a slider on a spare TM16K stick, and the flood light in the A-10C. 

Nothing happens until I've passed 50%. Used the animation of the knob in the module and VPC Joystick Tester Tool to confirm.

 

Nice catch. I've seen this in other modules with various axis. While I have the full range on my Warthog in most modules, I do not have it in all. Even from the same 3rd party, like in the Tomcat I have it, but not in the Viggen.

Edited September 11, 2022 by MAXsenna

[imacken]

Hallelujah!  A result.

[MAXsenna]

2 hours ago, imacken said:

Hallelujah!  A result.

Praise be!

The workaround is of course to change the saturations of the relevant axis, but it's not a fix for the "bug". Not sure if to call it a bug, it's probably just some wrong numbers.

[imacken]

Well, either way, I think it needs fixing.  Hopefully, now we'll get a response from @BIGNEWYor @NineLine on this.  I know it's not major, but it is annoying, and a pain if/when you need to rebind the lighting controls.

BTW, the workaround I posted above with user curves starting at 50% (instead of 0%) in 5% increments is a better way than changing the saturations. That leads to unbalanced responses.

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by imacken

[SkateZilla]

You're using an Input axis that has a negative range and a positive range. (Double Pole/Range Axis)

I'll look into it on my end, but the only way to make it work is to make make windows/dcs think it's a single pole axis (0->100%, and not -100% -> 0 -> 100%).

This appears to be a conflict between DCS and the Input device manufacturer.

As DCS only wants to See 0->100% Positive Range, as that's what the knob is,
But the input device has -100% -> 0 -> 100% Range, so DCS Doesnt pickup any movement until you get to 0 which is 50% of the input devices rotation.

 

Rough example,

Volume Knob is Single Range, 0 being mute, 100 being max volume.

L/R Channel Balance is Dual Range. -100 being Left Channel 100%, 0 being 50/50, 100 being Right channel 100%

 

User is trying to control Volume (or Lights brightness), with a L/R Balance knob.

it's not a bug, its mapping an input to an incompatible axis, you can manipulate the axis to get the desired effect, but that's an end user responsability.

Edited September 19, 2022 by SkateZilla

[imacken]

Thanks Skate, but I don’t think that’s the issue at all. This occurs with any device, any axis, only on lighting axis binds and only in 3 or 4 modules. 

[SkateZilla]

8 minutes ago, imacken said:

Thanks Skate, but I don’t think that’s the issue at all. This occurs with any device, any axis, only on lighting axis binds and only in 3 or 4 modules. 

give me a detailed list of modules with the lighting control knobs that work and dont work for comparison.

Edited September 19, 2022 by SkateZilla

[imacken]

I’m away from my PC for a couple of days, but the modules that work and don’t work are listed in my first post. The A-10C and F-14 are injected axis commands, but the Harrier and Mirage 2000 are not. 
All of the lighting axis panel binds on the Harrier and M2000 exhibit this behaviour. None of the non-lighting axis binds do on the same modules. Any device used is the same. 

[imacken]

@SkateZillabeen a few weeks now. Have you had a chance to look at this issue?

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, imacken said:

@SkateZillabeen a few weeks now. Have you had a chance to look at this issue?

Apologies I've had a lot of things to do lately.

I will look at it some more on my next day off, but I still stand by my Observations of Dual Range input device.

For example, TM Warthog Throttles, and Slider at Mid- show as 50, and not 0,
But when I use my Xbox Joystick, the throttle shows as 0 at Mid, -100% at Idle, as it's a Dual Range

When you map a Dual Range input sensor to a single range device, you get the issue of the device in Sim only moving once your input device is above 0 value, which is the middle of the movement.

The only thing to do is move the axis in DCS and Controller software so that it see's -100% as 0

Edited October 5, 2022 by SkateZilla

[imacken]

Thanks for that, but honestly, I know what you are saying, but that is not the issue here.

This occurs with the lighting binds I've mentioned with any device and any axis.  Binding non-lighting commands to the same axis is without issue.  Or binding to lighting commands in the other modules I mentioned that are not affected.

To test, simply bind AN AXIS to INST PANEL LIGHTS BRT in the Harrier. and without any adjustment, you should see the knob doesn't respond until 50% of travel on the controller.

Then, try the same controller knob on a non-lighting bind, and you should see it working OK.

Let me repeat, this is only happening in a few modules. Most are OK.

[speed-of-heat]

I exhibit the same behaviour and the axis that i was testing it against runs 0-64k

the same axis, bound to a similar control in the F-18 offers a full range of motion , but in the Harrier only the last 50% 

[imacken]

@SkateZillawith others seeing the same issue, and the 2 or 3 DCS players who are friends of mine seeing the same thing, what do we have to do to get this reported?

I know it's not a show-stopper because of the workaround with user curves in these modules, but still, it has been months since this was brought up.

Thanks.

[MAXsenna]

34 minutes ago, imacken said:

@SkateZillawith others seeing the same issue, and the 2 or 3 DCS players who are friends of mine seeing the same thing, what do we have to do to get this reported?

I know it's not a show-stopper because of the workaround with user curves in these modules, but still, it has been months since this was brought up.

Thanks.

We ping @Flappie!

[imacken]

Sounds like a plan!

[Flappie]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:11 PM, MAXsenna said:

We ping @Flappie!

Hey, I'll take a look as soon as I get home.

[Flappie]

Tested with a TM Warthog HOTAS. I recognize the issue affects both M-2000C and AV-8B. Regarding the F-14 and A-10C, I need a hint: what precise light control axis commands are you talking about?

F-14 Pilot

• HSD Brightness: 0-100%
• HUD Brightness: 0-100%
• VDI Screen Brightness: 0-100%
• VDI Screen Contrast: for some reason, only a small part of the screeen changes between 0-50%. The whole screen contrast starts changing in the 50-100% range. Issue or art? I also noticed the constrat is not changed at all in night mode. I'm not sure this is an issue, though.

F-14 RIO

• DDD Brightness: 0-100%
• DDD Erase: 0-100%
• DDD Pulse gain: 0-100%
• DDD Pulse Video: 0-100%
• ECMD Brightness: 0-100%
• TID Brightness: 0-100%
• TID Contrast: 0-100%

A-10C I / II

• Flashlight BRT Control: I could not get the flashlight to lit up.

AV-8B -> affected

• CONSOLE LIGHTS BRT: 50-100%
• EDP BRT CONTROL: 50-100%
• FLOOD LIGHTS BRT CONTROL: 50-100%
• Formation Lights Knob Axis: 50-100%
• HUD BRT CONTROL: 50-100%
• INST PANEL LIGHTS BRT: 50-100%
• VIDEO BRT CONTROL: 50-100%
• VIDEO CONTCONTROL: 50-100%
• WARN/CAUT ANNUNC BRT CONTROL: 0-100%

M-2000C -> affected

• Caution/Advisory Lights Knob: 50-100%
• Console Panel Lights Knob: 50-100%
• Dashboard Panel Lights Knob: 50-100%
• Dashboard U.V. Lights Knob: 50-100%
• HUD Brightness: 50-100%
• PCN Brightness: 50-100%
• Red Flood Lights Knob: 50-100%
• Refuel Lights Brightness Knob: not implemented yet?
• RWR Lights Brightness Control: 50-100%
• White Flood Lights Knob: 50-100%