MFCD visibility issue due to SRGB being enabled in 2.8

[seven10]

I agree, whatever change happened with 2.8 has made the MFCD's a lot harder to read without leaning in while using VR. I'm currently running a G2 at 2432x2382 with no FSR or sharpening.

[BIGNEWY]

merged threads 

[Hive]

Thanks for merging. I hope this thread will move to the bug-forum and the issue is investigated?

[Fuggzy]

Thought it was just me.  I can't read the A-10 MFCD's at all in VR/DCS2.8 without moving my head down close to them.  Other aircraft don't seem to be affected, or as.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

can you please let me know your dcs graphics settings and your NVIDA / AMD graphic settings. 

thank  you

[Hive]

nVidia RTX 3090: everything on standard settings in the Control Panel

Reverb G2: OpenXR, 110% resolution

DCS: PD 1.0, MSAA 2x

[seven10]

I'm running AMD driver 22.11.1 along with OpenXR set to a resolution of 2432x2382 with no motion reprojection

[ColinM9991]

I'm a little bit confused by the "cannot reproduce" tag and the fact that we're still talking about this as if it's solely a VR and user graphics issue. It is an issue that affects VR and 2D. It is an issue with DCS in the 2.8 update, it is not an issue with any settings that users have configured that have not changed between both versions.

I have already provided comparison photos taken in 2D, not VR but 2D, that show a clear difference between 2.7 & 2.8. To say it again, on my end absolutely nothing was changed in Nvidia/AMD or in-game graphics, aside from the inclusion of the new shadows setting, between my test on 2.7 & 2.8.

In case it has already been forgotten, here is the comparison photo that shows a very clear difference in the weight of the text. There has been no editing of this picture other than to include the version. What incentive is there to report bugs if the evidence is just going to be ignored? At this point I cannot understand how the difference in this photo is not being recognized.

 

The reproduction steps are

1. Take a screenshot of the MFDs in 2.7

2. Take a screenshot of the MFDs in 2.8

3. Compare the screenshots

4. Look very closely at the definition of the text.

Edited November 29, 2022 by ColinM9991

[Hive]

Thank you, ColinM9991! It is extremely obvious in your screenshot that something has changed. And while it does not look necessarily worse in the screenshot (I might like 2.8 even better in 2D), it is a completely different story in VR where it is so much harder to read.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Hive

[Moxica]

it kinda looks like the A10 cocpit is out of focus, but with a sweet spot at ca. 15-20cm. At this distance, the MFD's also look alright.

[Hive]

This thread is still flagged as "cannot reproduce", but I hope it is investigated?

[ColinM9991]

5 hours ago, Hive said:

This thread is still flagged as "cannot reproduce", but I hope it is investigated?

Although it's not an option for everyone, I'm running 2.7 alongside 2.8 as I have very little hope in this bug getting past the preliminary stages of bug reporting.

Considering the conversation so far has been focused on user settings, and not the clear difference between 2.7 & 2.8, I'd bet this is one of those cases where a bug becomes a feature.

[ColinM9991]

This issue now exists in Stable so the only way to use the A-10C II MFDs, as they were, is to explicitly downgrade to v2.7.

DCS_updater.exe update 2.7.18.30765 

[seven10]

I would suspect for anyone participating in a multi-player community, that won't really be an option though. Most servers I know, including my own, follow the update cycle of the current Open Beta.

*Just retried the A-10 with my new GPU and the issue is the same. However, adding some CAS sharpening in the OpenXR tools has helped the text be more readable without having to lean in as much.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by seven10
Added info

[ColinM9991]

18 hours ago, seven10 said:

I would suspect for anyone participating in a multi-player community, that won't really be an option though. Most servers I know, including my own, follow the update cycle of the current Open Beta.

*Just retried the A-10 with my new GPU and the issue is the same. However, adding some CAS sharpening in the OpenXR tools has helped the text be more readable without having to lean in as much.

 

 

I agree 100%. The only real solution is for this to be investigated properly. It's potentially a knock on impact of shadows and reflections or changes to how MFDs are rendered which mainly impacts the A-10 due to its font size being naturally weightier.

 

@BIGNEWY

@NineLine

 

Any chance of this being reviewed again? There absolutely is a difference between 2.7 & 2.8 which makes these harder to read.

[BIGNEWY]

Personally not seeing a problem, but I will ask others to check also. 

 

[Donglr]

to answer the question: no, it is not just you, I see it the same way.

And I am also a bit baffled by how this problem is not seen by the support personnel. It is very obvious in VR, but even @ColinM9991's post should make everyone realize something changed for worse.  

[Hive]

17 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Personally not seeing a problem, but I will ask others to check also. 

 

Thank you, BIGNEWY! You don't see a problem, but you see the difference, right? At least in ColinM9991's screenshot? If we can at least agree, that something has changed, it should be easier to to find a solution for those that are negatively affected by the change. For me and obviously others this is a huge deal as it is so much harder to read the MFCDs. As it worked well for years until the recent update, we know it is possible.

[BuzzU]

I see the difference in the picture. However, I don't see a difference in game without VR. By default the brightness isn't turned up all the way. When I do turn it up it looks like it always has. Just as bright.

I have to agree with BIGNEWY.

[Hive]

Well, as the title says, it is a VR problem, so I am not suprised that you do not see it without VR. But I will try turning up the brightness.

I did not fly the A-10 for some weeks and when I did today I was shocked again what an aliased mess the MFCDs have become. I am happy for everyone who does not have/see this problem/change, but it still needs to be fixed for those who do.

Checking out, Happy New Year everybody!

Edited December 31, 2022 by Hive

[BuzzU]

5 minutes ago, Hive said:

Well, as the title says, it is a VR problem, so I am not suprised that you do not see it without VR. But I will try turning up the brightness.

I did not fly the A-10 for some weeks and when I did today I was shocked again what an aliased mess the MFCDs have become. I am happy for everyone who does not have/see this problem/change, but it still needs to be fixed for those who do.

Checking out, Happy New Year everybody!

 

I was responding to those saying the problem is in VR and 2D.

[ColinM9991]

26 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

I was responding to those saying the problem is in VR and 2D.

The inclusion of 2D screenshots is to show it isn't just a discrepancy with VR, however VR suffers the worst due to lack of visibility compared to previous versions - without using VR Spyglass Zoom, or leaning in. I appreciate there's a bit of a mixed message here since some say it is solely a VR issue. The encompassing change is visible in 2D and VR.

Even in the above screenshot, with no brightness changes, you can clearly see the ARS (lower left corner) isn't as visible. These pictures were taken via a zoomed in camera. Now imagine how it looks when seated normally with no zoom.

The point is, the changelogs make zero mention of this change for the A-10C II and the behaviour is not as it was in 2.7 or previous versions, for the past several years. Therefore this is either an unintended or undocumented change. In any case, it has a detrimental impact on VR gameplay. The DSMS and STAT pages being especially bad. MAV and TGP cursors being difficult to see. It sets an unwanted precedent if we're saying that previous modules can just up and change out of nowhere thus decreasing visibility, where that change is considered a feature or "unreproducible", when many of us have enjoyed playing that module in VR for years.

Edited December 31, 2022 by ColinM9991

[BuzzU]

I agree there's a problem with VR and should be fixed.

[escaner]

I dont know about vr, but symbology brightness is much lower in 2d, which makes the mfcd much harder to read and it is not possible to increase to previous levels

[BuzzU]

I did a new install and I do see a difference now in 2D. The brightness adjustment isn't all the way bright but even turned up the brightness looks lower.

I'm not sure what a new install changed?